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Midterm looks like a soft ground horse to me. His action was already worrying at Sandown, and he didn’t look comfortable today.
It seems to me Midterm’s form was exaggerated (including by Timeform) although still has scope to improve given time and didn’t show his form today. Pushed along some way out. It might be ground, but apparently very coltish in prelims today and I’d put it down to that (and inexperience). Epsom will be an even greater test of temperament. Suspect he’ll miss the Derby and go for the King Ed.
Value Is EverythingNot sure why is is a hammer blow Steve. The winner is a very good horse I think who is only going to get better. The second is smart and the third has solid form as well and ran well. They are disappointed by Midterm but as I said he was priced more on connections than what he ever actually done on the racecourse. I agree that there is no stand-out, obvious favourite as yet but I think there are several who are heading very much in the right direction and I wouldn’t be surprised if The Dante turns out to have been a very good race.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
I wouldn’t be put of my Midterm, It was just an awful awful ride by Pat. 15 lengths down at York absolutely no chance, think he will run big in Derby. I agree he ran a stinker but Pat never gave him a chance to win the race.
The winner has come from the same position, but travelled nice whereas Midterm never looked happy.
Midterm did run on past others and Stoute has lost this race previous and gone onto win the Derby, although not for me.Blackbeard to conquer the World
Not sure why is is a hammer blow Steve. The winner is a very good horse I think who is only going to get better. The second is smart and the third has solid form as well and ran well. They are disappointed by Midterm but as I said he was priced more on connections than what he ever actually done on the racecourse. I agree that there is no stand-out, obvious favourite as yet but I think there are several who are heading very much in the right direction and I wouldn’t be surprised if The Dante turns out to have been a very good race.
Foundation was a solid horse last year. This season he’s disappointed.
That Craven form looks awful to me. Deauville beating Foundation this season might not necessarily have been great form because, as I said coming into the race, Frankie being on Wings Of Desire told its own story, despite the bull from Harry Herbert.
I reckon Midterm was overrated by at least 7lbs and it may well be that Wings Of Desire now gets the same treatment.
I thought a runaway win by Midterm was the last hope of a decent Derby horse this year and it hasn’t happened.
Many were aghast at Ruler Of The World being a 120 rated Derby winner. I have this awful vision of a 115 rated winner this year.
I can understand that you are enthused as a Gosden fan but I tend to stay totally unbiased and sang froid. This Derby makes that very easy to do.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
What was the rating of the lowest rated Derby winner? We could be in that territory this year I feel.
In recent years, Ruler of the World isn’t it? Him or Sir Percy. The latter had a RPR of 120 I think.
Disappointing Dante result for me. I have antepost bets on Midterm at 10-1 and 8-1 – now I can decide whether to get 14-1 as well or give up on him. He was messing about in the paddock, very coltish, but I can’t use that as an excuse.
I hope we will see more from Midterm in the future, if not at Epsom, since he is the first out of Midday.
I thought it was an impressive performance from Wings Of Desire (that name just makes me hum that Jennifer Rush song from the 1980s, lol) I but can’t help wonder if 5-1 is a bit short considering that he’s not yet declared at Epsom.
Do you think we’re safe to assume John Gosden will supplement Wings Of Desire?
Nice pedigree – dam is a half-sister to Sariska and has also produced Eagle Top and The Lark (both placed in 12f tests at Group 1 level).
Not sure what to make of the Dante. Either the first two have a decent chance of winning the derby or foundations run devalues the form. It was a cracking run from deauville and with coolmore likely to run 3 or 4 will no doubt get a lead rather than having to do it himself. The winner is inexperienced so its who we think will improve most from the run. I suspect both will like the extra distance. As I said before the vase seemed the best form so it’s whether you think the Dante was better. I have my doubts and port Douglas ew seems an even better bet now. Only worry is firm ground for the first two in the vase. We will find out in the race. You can make a case for a number of runner so should be a cracking race. Not so sure about the quality though.
Looks like only be MOONLIGHT MAGIC for me in derby now.Wonder who should be new fave for derby now
What was the rating of the lowest rated Derby winner? We could be in that territory this year I feel.
Not the lowest rated, but Workforce was also hugely flattered after shuffling to victory in a shocking Arc after winning an appalling Derby. He also belongs in the Ruler Of The World/Sir Percy pile.
What was the rating of the lowest rated Derby winner? We could be in that territory this year I feel.
Not the lowest rated, but Workforce was also hugely flattered after shuffling to victory in a shocking Arc after winning an appalling Derby. He also belongs in the Ruler Of The World/Sir Percy pile.
That’s a good point. Amongst those behind him at Epsom, I can only think of Rewilding who went on to do anything else of note (may he rest in peace).
It has nothing to do me with me being a Gosden fan Stevie and I am certainly not biased – I’d be a pretty useless punter if I was. I am a fan of several trainers by the way as you know. Foundation ran second in the Craven over a shorter trip than is surely ideal on ground that wouldn’t have suited. He has improved for the run as the trainer said he would. Besides, one run hardly makes the case for saying he has been disappointing this season. The Derby comes along so early and we are talking about colts who must run 4 furlongs further than they are asked to run as 2 year olds. It is normal that new horses come along as relatively late developers. Remember Commander in Chief, Eswarah in the Oaks. Wings of Desire has an exceptional pedigree and has always been a very good worker. He is making giant strides very quickly and he could well prove to be top class. As usual, when people start shouting about it being a poor year way too early, time will tell. We already have Maassat rated 119 so I doubt we will looking at a 115 winner. It may well be that they turn out to be useless but we can’t tell that yet.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Well it cant’t be any worse than the 8 that lined up against Camelot. I wonder if Harzand is still on course, his win in the Ballysax looks even better now but 25/1 is strangely big?
Smullen had said (before Weld was interviewed) that Harzand was a bit too big (size wise) to go to Epsom and would be one for the future. Weld said he won’t rule anything out, Since their other other did not do too well at the Derrinstown, they should give it a craic.
Wings Of Desire is being supplemented. He was in fact originally in the Derby and they then pulled him out of it, which has now proved expensive.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
It has nothing to do me with me being a Gosden fan Stevie and I am certainly not biased – I’d be a pretty useless punter if I was. I am a fan of several trainers by the way as you know. Foundation ran second in the Craven over a shorter trip than is surely ideal on ground that wouldn’t have suited. He has improved for the run as the trainer said he would. Besides, one run hardly makes the case for saying he has been disappointing this season. The Derby comes along so early and we are talking about colts who must run 4 furlongs further than they are asked to run as 2 year olds. It is normal that new horses come along as relatively late developers. Remember Commander in Chief, Eswarah in the Oaks. Wings of Desire has an exceptional pedigree and has always been a very good worker. He is making giant strides very quickly and he could well prove to be top class. As usual, when people start shouting about it being a poor year way too early, time will tell. We already have Maassat rated 119 so I doubt we will looking at a 115 winner. It may well be that they turn out to be useless but we can’t tell that yet.
Foundation was woeful in the Craven Joni. There was no other way to describe it and everyone in the Universe knew he wasn’t going to win today. He’s out of the Derby now and he won’t win the French version in my opinion.
Massaat isn’t rated 119 by the way, he’s 116 and I am dubious about Galileo Gold being rated 120 myself.
5th horse in the 2000 Guineas Kentuckyconnection was raised 28lbs by the handicapper for his effort and I smelled a large chunk of BS when I read that. I think the world and his wife knew that was rubbish and he went off 33/1 today and was behind horses rated 93, 87 and 93. I think it’s reasonable to deduce that his Guineas rating is a load of welly.
There is no doubt Wings Of Desire has progressed well and is a decent prospect. I rate him a better bet than US Army Ranger, who I am convinced is talk and not substance in Aidan’s army of clones of near identical ability.
I find this year’s race to be uninspiring. Time will tell.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Even if Foundation was “woeful” in the Craven there were valid excuses for it as I mentioned. He wasn’t woeful today was he? He just ran as good as he probably is – a pretty good horse probably capable of winning again at Group 2 level and who might run into a place in the French Derby. I really respect your thoughts Steve and you are normally almost always close to the mark. My only point is that the we shouldn’t necessarily decry the Dante just because the favourite didn’t win it by three lengths going away. Midterm had it all still to prove on the form book and simply wasn’t good enough. To me it looked a good race and I think the main protagonists will turn out to be pretty decent. Sorry about getting Maassat’s rating wrong.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
That was a Good Dante today,Deauville looks a cert to be placed in Derby,Foundation is a Group 1 11/4m horse,could be a Coral Eclipse sort and the winner could be anything.A very imposing Chestnut who’s looks and style of running match his ability.
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