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Reading between the lines – I think SMS is possibly thinking that Workforce could just about the best horse he has ever trained. Stoutey thinks there is even more improvement to come.
If he chooses to run in Ireland next, can anyone seriously see anything reversing the Derby form ? Even if AOB surrounded him with every three year old in his yard, he’d still hack up at the Curragh. As for the King George; Fame and Glory ( if he runs ) will simply give Workforce a good lead. I foresee a Generous like performance on the day.
Then to the Arc; which, as we all know, is an entirely different kettle of fish altogether – but still a race which Workforce is more than capable of winning.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
The Ballydoyle three year olds may not reappear until Aidan is sure that they are 100% which right now they are not.The only one running up to last year is the pacemaker so beware.
I’m not sure about all this Ballydoyle 3yo stuff, how they’re running poorly etc. For me Jan Vermeer and Fencing Master are the only ones to run below form.
St. Nicholas Abbey: ran well enough in the 2000 Guineas, muscle problems
Fencing Master: ran well in the 2000, admittedly ran a very poor race at the Curragh.
Steinbeck: Ran like he’d comem on a tonne for the run and was pleasing enough.
Lillie Langtry: Ran as Steinbeck did.
Cape Blanco: hacked up in the Dante, then ran poorly in France, which was not altogether unexpected after his problems post-Dante.
Midas Touch: Ran well in the Derby, he was never going to be good enough in that imo.
Obviously the runs of Steinbeck and Lillie Langtry will tell us alot more at Ascot as they have their second runs of the season. I wouldn’t be surprised if they silenced the doubters.
The Ballydoyle three year olds may not reappear until Aidan is sure that they are 100% which right now they are not.The only one running up to last year is the pacemaker so beware.
S
Sheesh Andy, you keep banging on that drum. There has been zero evidence of any issues at Ballydoyle. As a matter of fact a headline in today’s Racing Post reads: "O’Brien has strength in numbers for Palace clash. Five of the fifteen declared runners in this race are from Ballydoyle", doesn’t sound like a disappearing act to me.
I do however seem to recall a more than brash statement from you at the beginning of the season that O’Brien would break the record of grp1. winners in one year and would sweep pretty much all major european classics.So the facts are as follows: Zero for ten on the classics front with nary a sniff at a winner and with three remaining classics zero for 13 is most likely on the cards, especially if Workforce shows up in Ireland. How many grp.1 winners so far TWO, I think. Ballydoyle will throw everything and the kitchen sink at Royal Ascot but maybe it’s time for reality to set in and stop making excuses at every turn and just come out and say that on a whole they just are not up to standard at the very top end in the 3yo division and that simply means winners. It takes more than for horses to walk on water to win these type of races
On second thought why not a take nice weekend sojourn up to Humboldt county, enjoy some of their finest cash crop and just relax a little.
Dont think your position for Ballydoyle’s unofficial PR machine is in much jeopardy around here.
I’m not sure about all this Ballydoyle 3yo stuff, how they’re running poorly etc. For me Jan Vermeer and Fencing Master are the only ones to run below form.
St. Nicholas Abbey: ran well enough in the 2000 Guineas, muscle problems
Fencing Master: ran well in the 2000, admittedly ran a very poor race at the Curragh.
Steinbeck: Ran like he’d comem on a tonne for the run and was pleasing enough.
Lillie Langtry: Ran as Steinbeck did.
Cape Blanco: hacked up in the Dante, then ran poorly in France, which was not altogether unexpected after his problems post-Dante.
Midas Touch: Ran well in the Derby, he was never going to be good enough in that imo.
Obviously the runs of Steinbeck and Lillie Langtry will tell us alot more at Ascot as they have their second runs of the season. I wouldn’t be surprised if they silenced the doubters.
Silence the doubters? Dont you think there is enough evidence out there now. The season is not over by any means but if measured by classic success and that is where Ballydoyle excels then it has been an unmitigated disaster for them.
"brendanr" wrote:
I’m not sure about all this Ballydoyle 3yo stuff, how they’re running poorly etc. For me Jan Vermeer and Fencing Master are the only ones to run below form.
St. Nicholas Abbey: ran well enough in the 2000 Guineas, muscle problems
Fencing Master: ran well in the 2000, admittedly ran a very poor race at the Curragh.
Steinbeck: Ran like he’d comem on a tonne for the run and was pleasing enough.
Lillie Langtry: Ran as Steinbeck did.
Cape Blanco: hacked up in the Dante, then ran poorly in France, which was not altogether unexpected after his problems post-Dante.
Midas Touch: Ran well in the Derby, he was never going to be good enough in that imo.
Obviously the runs of Steinbeck and Lillie Langtry will tell us alot more at Ascot as they have their second runs of the season. I wouldn’t be surprised if they silenced the doubters.
Silence the doubters? Dont you think there is enough evidence out there now. The season is not over by any means but if measured by classic success and that is where Ballydoyle excels then it has been an unmitigated disaster for them.
Don’t get me wrong, it has been a poor start ot the season for Ballydoyle, a very poor one. But I’m just saying I wouldn’t believe that there’s a bug in the yard or anything like that just yet, at least not on the evidence that’s infront of us.
We are in full agreement then that is no evidence of a bug in the yard with all the horses they are churning out.
This week will be an important week for them. It could signal a turning point or it could mean this season continues to get worse.
I’m fairly sure St Nick will get ‘injured’ about a week before the race, possibly he’ll scope dirty or so and go to the Dante instead.
The next best thing for Ballydoyle after winning the Guineas with St Nick is him being injured and never having had to be tested over the trip again, thus preserving his reputation and making it look like Ballydoyle’s gutted that he misses the Guineas.
Damn, made the right prediction about the wrong Classic.
Lets bet on that, I think he will…..but Im hoping he’s not…..
How can you tell if there is a bug in the yard? Three things;
first nobody in the yard will talk about it, period.To deny it even is to admit it.If you admit it owners leave,put their horses in quarantine and replace the trainer in due course.Second, all your horses fold as soon as pressure is applied.Sprinters after four ,five ,six depending on the distancde. Longer races when the whip is applied eg for the final push.This sudden folding of the horses is the best sign to look for.One horse or maybe two older horses seem able to keep their form.They seem to be able to resist the bug.Finally brief windows of opportunity appear when horses will run one good race.(Dont confuse this with the horses who seem able to resist the bug.) However they will not follow up on that form.I have given an operational definition of the bug,or how you can recognise it’s presence, based on my experience as an owner.I will leave it up to the clinicians to give a clinicaal one.So then andydod, how do know if a stable’s just in poor form, or when theres a bug in the yard
Check No1.Will the yard refuse to discuss the possibility of the bug? Also "poor form" should be short lived.Finally are the horses running well up to a point in their races and then stopping like they hit a wall? Watch the runners carefully from that yard.The bug can last for a long long time.See a recent interview with Dessie Hughes.Sorry I don’t have the address for the article I believe it may have appeared in the Times.There are no quick answers.
Lets not go making knee jerk reactions about Cape Blanco or St Nicholas Abbey being O’Brien’s number one Jan Vermeer for whatever reason didn’t run to form today he is better than that.
Workforce was awesome today its impossible not to be impressed with that performance.
Knee Jerk? Cape Blanco beat Workforce in the Dante, beat him very well, based on form, he was number one of Aidan’s horses IMO.
JohnJ
Workforce improved bundles from York.
If you want to see where Cape blanco would’ve finished, take a look where Coordinated Cut finished.
Based on form, Cape Blanco would not have beaten Workforce.That’s if (BIG IF) Cape Blanco, who’s out of a sprinter, from a sprinters family, would’ve stayed.
Dante form confirmed, Cape Blanco should have run in the Derby, such a bad decision to send him France.JohnJ
I was thinking about that. I can only assume he was still a little injured from the hoof incident at York and needed another week off.
Ah yes, true. Maybe he needed another day off then?
It’s a strange one, not really sure why Ballydoyle did what they did. Galileo’s real lack of Derby success (1-1-9) compared to Montjeu’s (2-2-12) makes him a lot less attractive at stud, so if anything, running Jan at Chantilly and Cape at Epsom would have made a lot more sense. Or maybe Cape Blanco just doesn’t like big fields. It was the first time he’d met a field of more than 10 and would have seen a lot more horses around him than he was previously used to.
Zarkava,
I think Ballydoyle got too carried away with Jan Vermeer’s performance prior to Epsom at the Curragh. The form of that race is purely dire, and Cape Blanco was rerouted to Chantilly following SNA’s defection. His performance at Chantilly would suggest that he didn’t like the ground or something else was amiss, but he has put up good performances since then. I would like to see how he would get on if dropped in trip to 10f and aimed at the Irish Champion or the International at York.
JohnJ.
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