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Because as most sane people knew and stated pre-race, he is not a 3yo miler, not even a pretend one. He needs 10f minimum and the race, as has been well documented, was not run at a strong pace. When everything quickened this Derby horse went with them and stayed on, making it a hugely meritorious run, imo.
It’s highly likely he wouldn’t have gone to Newmarket had Sea The Stars not been around. He would have gone to the Dante, won it, and, yep, been around a 2/1 chance.
Jan Vermeer is a very good horse though I agree.
Serious weakness behind Midas Touch & Cape Blanco today. 12.5 and 15 respectively. On the other hand, Jan Vermeer very strong, into 11/2.
Sending both the Montjeus to Epsom and the Galileos to Chantilly?
I already predicted that some way back.But I was just guessing. Could still be wrong.Midas Touch may not have the foot to win a classic.He still has Mikhail Glinka, and Beethoven and Joshua Tree and now Fencing Master at home not to mention the Sadler Well’s horses such as Rain Forrest and Flying Cross. Interesting summer coming up.Add to that Steinbeck and Viscount Nelson for the mile races.Hard to get focused.Four down and no classics won!
In my younger days I have run round the Derby course. It’s not just the undulations it is the way the course slops particularly down the finishing straight. There is a considerable slope away from the stands. This is very apparent in sprints were the winner invariable is drawn stand side and ends up in the middle of the course.
Epsom can ruin a horse and Sir Percy comes to mind. Down the finishing straight your body takes a pounding on the left side particularly if you run it seriously. I can’t see it being much different for a horse with four legs.
So you need a well balance animal and big and therefore heavy must be a disadvantage. Yeats would never have won an Epsom race imo.
This years lot look very poor to me. Lets hope we get some late entries.
SNA’s odds a joke!
Just curious, what have everyone backed, and what are you going to back?
I personally have Chabal and Cape Blanco
"Yeats would never have won an Epsom race imo."
Yeats won the Coronation Cup in 2005, a year after he should’ve lined up in the Derby.
We could really get a
Hawk Wing
High ChapRe-Run.
Wasn’t Hawk Wing the big talking Horse that year for Ballydoyle?….interesting
In my younger days I have run round the Derby course. It’s not just the undulations it is the way the course slops particularly down the finishing straight. There is a considerable slope away from the stands. This is very apparent in sprints were the winner invariable is drawn stand side and ends up in the middle of the course.
Epsom can ruin a horse and Sir Percy comes to mind. Down the finishing straight your body takes a pounding on the left side particularly if you run it seriously. I can’t see it being much different for a horse with four legs.
So you need a well balance animal and big and therefore heavy must be a disadvantage. Yeats would never have won an Epsom race imo.
This years lot look very poor to me. Lets hope we get some late entries.
SNA’s odds a joke!
Yeats won the Coronation Cup at Epsom in 05. In relation to what I have backed, nothing yet, I am waiting to see if Cape Blanco is declared, then I will back him.
JohnJ
- Total Posts 17716
In my younger days I have run round the Derby course. It’s not just the undulations it is the way the course slops particularly down the finishing straight. There is a considerable slope away from the stands. This is very apparent in sprints were the winner invariable is drawn stand side and ends up in the middle of the course.
Epsom can ruin a horse and Sir Percy comes to mind. Down the finishing straight your body takes a pounding on the left side particularly if you run it seriously. I can’t see it being much different for a horse with four legs.
So you need a well balance animal and big and therefore heavy must be a disadvantage. Yeats would never have won an Epsom race imo.
This years lot look very poor to me. Lets hope we get some late entries.
SNA’s odds a joke!
Yeats won the Coronation Cup at Epsom in 05. In relation to what I have backed, nothing yet, I am waiting to see if Cape Blanco is declared, then I will back him.
JohnJ
Sir Percy was hardly ruined by Epsom either; he put up an arguably improved performance in the Sheema Classic afterwards.
Some interesting breeding trends for the Derby actually. Of the last 15 winners, the dams of 13 of them were either blacktype or unraced. I have no idea about the race records of the 2 exceptions so it could theoretically be 15 of the last 15.
Both Jan Vermeer and Cape Blanco fall down on this, but Midas Touch and St. Nicholas Abbey qualify.
I just wonder if Ballydoyle will use Jan Vermeer as the pacemaker since he’s a front-runner anyway.
If they intend to use a pacemaker they should declare Midas Touch for the job.You need a pacemaker to at least take you around Tattenham Corner.JanVermeer could easily turn pacemaking into a Derby victory if he hits the front early. Frankie has a good ride for a change.Most interesting Derby in years.Cape Blanco don’t need no pacemaker in France.
Yeats won the Coronation Cup at Epsom in 05.
Yep but he had to do it from the front and dictate where he went. The course is a little easier on the rail.
Re – Sir Percy not what the owners say……….
Or the press–
"Sir Percy only start (in 2006) after his Derby win he finished seventh of eight runners behind Pride in the Champion Stakes,
when it was revealed he was still suffering the ill effects of an injury sustained in the Derby."
There is no way on gods earth that Jan Vermeer will be used as a pacemaker, I’m amazed anyone is seriously contemplating that.
St Nicholas Abbey and Midas Touch defo go to Epsom.
Looks like Cape Blanco defo doesnt run and he may go to France but he may not run at all the weekend after next. Certainly not at Epsom and is out to 21/1 on the Exchanges.
Jan Vermeer still no decision.
I stick by my earlier guns of
MT/SNA/JV Epsom
CB France
However just as i posted Jan Vermeer has gone on a walk with 540 quid being traded at 6.4 last night but not out to 7.4 for the next avalible layable price.
Yeats won the Coronation Cup at Epsom in 05.
Yep but he had to do it from the front and dictate where he went. The course is a little easier on the rail.
Re – Sir Percy not what the owners say……….
Or the press–
"Sir Percy only start (in 2006) after his Derby win he finished seventh of eight runners behind Pride in the Champion Stakes,
when it was revealed he was still suffering the ill effects of an injury sustained in the Derby."
Freyen,
How can you defend your first statement about Yeats? What, was the rail positioned over at Newbury, come on mate!
JohnJ
Ian, if you are referring to my post I did not say that JanVermeer be "used" as a pace maker. I suggested that Midas Touch could be "used" as pace maker and that if Janvermeer take up the running from him after rounding T. Corner he could go on to win.However my expression "turned pace making" is, I agree, misleading. Cape Blanco,if recovered, and Viscount Nelson may go to France. I find this the most interesting Derby in years with both Stoutie and Godolfin having real contenders.
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