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English raiders in French handicaps?

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  • #16184
    thedarkknight
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1299

    I have seen UK trained horses run in maidens, claimers and obviously all of the pattern races, but don’t recall seeing any compete in handicaps.

    Given the superior prize-money on offer, I’m guessing there must be some rule preventing our horses running?

    #316900
    Prufrock
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2081

    I got the following reply from someone who handicaps French horses:

    David Nicholls ran Bonnie Prince Blue and Royal Dignitary in handicaps at Cagnes-sur-Mer in February, though they’d run there beforehand (possibly gaining a handicap mark).

    Other than those it’s very rare. I’ve never read that British-trained horses are barred from going straight into a handicap in France.

    Considering the number of British runners in French listed and pattern races, I can’t find any trace of British-trained horses running in France’s only listed handicap, the Grand Handicap de Deauville, run in August.

    Do you have a cunning plan? :wink:

    #316909
    thedarkknight
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1299

    Was just wondering, prufrock.

    Always like to explore all the options :)

    #316912
    Avatar photoNever Nearer
    Member
    • Total Posts 98

    Pour qu’un cheval soit qualifié dans un handicap en plat, il faut qu’il ait, en France, à la clôture des
    engagements :
    – soit couru deux fois en ayant gagné au moins une fois,
    – soit été classé deux fois dans les quatre premiers,
    – soit couru au moins trois fois.et pour les chevaux ayant gagné une course à l’étranger qu’ils aient couru au moins une fois en France après cette
    victoire.
    Les courses réservées aux gentlemen-riders et aux cavalières ne sont cependant pas prises en compte pour cette
    qualification.
    Toutefois, sauf exception prévue par les conditions générales ou particulières s’appliquant à la course, pour qu’un
    cheval soit qualifié dans un handicap prévu comme support de paris sur le plan national, il faut qu’il ait, en outre, à
    la clôture des engagements :
    – été classé dans les sept premiers d’une course prévue comme support de paris enregistrés sur le plan national,
    – ou été classé deux fois dans les cinq premiers d’une course disputée sur un hippodrome classé en pôle national
    ou en pôle régional,
    – ou été classé dans les trois premiers d’une course courue sur un hippodrome de 1ère catégorie.
    Les conditions de qualification ci-dessus peuvent être complétées pour certains handicaps par des conditions de
    qualification spécifiques mentionnées dans les conditions générales ou particulières s’appliquant à la course.

    Which is definitive (http://www3.france-galop.com/uploads/tx … E09_01.PDF), if incomprehensible to this monoglot. Babelfish implies that a horse needs to have run/been running in France.

    #316923
    Adrian
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1041

    It is very complicated and depends if the handicap is a PMU race or not.

    Basically speaking, for flat races, with PMU:

    Must have been placed (except amateur races) in France in first 7 in a PMU race or
    Placed twice in the first 5 in a national or regional racecourse or
    Placed in first three in a 1st category racecourse.

    For flat races outside of PMU races:

    Must have run at least 3 races in France (except amateur races) or
    Been placed twice in the first 4 places or
    Run twice, winning once.

    For jumping you should have run 3 times or 2 places.

    This rule changes all the time so best to check in advance if you are planning to do it!

    #316929
    Adrian
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1041

    Of course the flip side is foreign horses can run in our flat handicaps as long as they can be rated 90+.

    You’ll have seen that there are a couple of interesting German horses in the Cambridgeshire – both owned by Gestut Ittlingen and trained by Torsten Mundry and Peter Schiergen – as well as John Hammond’s Tryst which ran at Royal Ascot.

    #316931
    Prufrock
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2081

    Is this another area where the powers-that-be could/should "harmonise" rules? At one of their endless junkets. Sorry, international conferences.

    #317241
    Avatar photoAngloGerman
    Member
    • Total Posts 602

    Of course the flip side is foreign horses can run in our flat handicaps as long as they can be rated 90+.

    You’ll have seen that there are a couple of interesting German horses in the Cambridgeshire – both owned by Gestut Ittlingen and trained by Torsten Mundry and Peter Schiergen – as well as John Hammond’s Tryst which ran at Royal Ascot.

    I was actually really surprised when I heard that Neatico and Scolari had been entered in the Cambridgeshire – maybe it’s my biased view, but I think they could could both do really well, and Scolari could be a possible winner. However, Scolari did win a decent handicap in France a few months back, and you do see plenty of German trained horses running in French handicaps. Mulheim based Werner Baltromei seems to have horses running in French handicaps almost every day, and several other German trainer regularly send horses to run in French handicaps – the main reason being the prize money.

    #317254
    davidjohnson
    Member
    • Total Posts 4491

    German horses can run off a banded mark in the UK as long as they change to a British trainer.

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