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- Total Posts 17716
As Shadow Leader says, apk, members are simply paying to fund someone else’s operation.
Elite’s website states quite clearly that much of the subscription fee goes toward covering the cost of the newsletter, the provided calculation valuing each issue (I believe) at £2.95. The fact that that is extortionate in itself aside – you can have better quality items printed at a fraction of the cost – it just goes to show how much the other ‘benefits’ actually cost.
Yard visits are not, if we’re honest, difficult to organise. Some trainers have open days when people are free to drop in, but I have lost count of the number of yards I have contacted and been invited to view out of nothing more than good grace.
I don’t believe I have stated that the financial return, or lack thereof, is a negative in itself – I merely stated that, in my experience, the club is appallingly organised when it comes to distributing prize money. That said, members don’t receive anything should any particular horse be sold which, as supposed owners, they surely should? The club’s advertising directly contradicts the terms and conditions detailed by Shadow Leader which, in conjunction with the half-arsed string of horses they maintain, tells you everything you need to know.
No, you can’t expect the world for £200, but you can expect to be treated properly and with some degree of respect. In this instance, that simply isn’t the case.
It has just occurred to me that the club refer to themselves as ‘Elite Racing Club Limited’ in the aforementioned terms and conditions, and as such their accounts should be available via Companies House. For the sake of £3.00, I think I’ll take a look – they should make for very interesting reading.
…money, money, money, betting, returns, profit, money….
some of us enjoy the FUN of racing and therefore don’t expect much else from it.
if you don’t want to be part of that experience, then you don’t have to.
- Total Posts 17716
As Shadow Leader says, apk, members are simply paying to fund someone else’s operation.
Who else’s? When members are contributing to this thread to say (a) that they
do
feel emotionally involved; and (b) feel that they are getting value for money, on what grounds are you contradicting them?
As Ugly Mare has repeated, the fiscal niceties are completely irrelevant to the pleasure membership gives to most, otherwise loyalty levels would not be as high as they are, even in this somewhat less than Golden Era of the Club’s activity.
Your tone suggests that you somehow imagine the Club is run by a cynical band of profiteers exploiting the mental weakness of a herd of sheep. That is not how Matthew and the management team appear in their one-to-one contacts with Club members. Their work rate is extremely impressive, and their personal commitment manifest.
Your point about the newsletters doesn’t seem to reflect experience, either. They are regular, literate, full of interest, and well printed. What more would you have?
- Total Posts 17716
My views are based on my experiences of the club, Pinza, and the fact that I can see past the oh-so-delightful twist they put on everything they offer.
When we informed the club that we weren’t renewing my grandad’s membership, they bombarded him with discount vouchers and subscription invitations for a period of almost two years (still having not, at the time, sent his share of that season’s prize money). I had to make a point of contacting the club on his behalf to suggest that no further communication be received, and their general attitude was poor to say the least.
If you’re happy paying for a breeding operation you derive no benefit from, horses you don’t actually own, yard visits which can be organised for free anyway, a questionable information line and a newsletter of debateable quality (certainly in relation to the value they attach to it), then that’s up to you.
- Total Posts 17716
My views are based on my experiences of the club, Pinza, and the fact that I can see past the oh-so-delightful twist they put on everything they offer.
Indeed they must be, and it’s clear that you (and/or your Grandad) were disappointed by what you got for your money. I can see how sore that experience has made you feel.
Those of us who are not disappointed – indeed who possibly expected rather
less
for our money! – have been pleasantly surprised by the Club’s positive attributes, and the buzz which it gives us.
We like the photos we’re sent of the mares we have come to know so well over the years, and those little foals who might be anything. We welcome that "oh-so-delightful twist" as being better than the dull negativity that oozes from so much in our money-obsessed society. Fiscal Return is not the only truth; and whether or not the "Elite Uplift" is illusory is beside the point.
For after all, in the final reckoning (and the Words of the Buddha)
everything
is illusion!
Having just read this matter I will now put in my four pennyworth.
I gave my partner membership as a gift ten years ago, and not only has it given her in introduction to the world of racing, but has now lead to us owning three horse and still a member of Elite.
The one thing Elite dose not give you is the other side of racing ownership.
THE COST We had a horse which over a two year period cost with purchase price, breaking, training fees and vets bills came to £18000 only to find out that due to a problem she would never be able to race. She is now looking at me over the fence.I think that you pay your money and you make your choise.
I think both are great value.- Total Posts 17716
Well, all I can say is that the company’s accounts do indeed make extraordinary reading.
I think that my post was not that clear
The cost of £18000 was not relaiting to an Elite Horse, but one of my own. I was told by my partner that that the cost should be closer to £25k
What I was trying to say is that I feel that Elite gives people a deal of fun.
Also what ever they or any other racing club provide somebody will knock it, and having talked to other people about other racing clubs Elite comes out well.
- Total Posts 17716
Apparently they do, but it’s interesting that so much of the club’s money goes through other companies run by its director Anthony Hill and that he saw fit to issue dividends of £3,000 per each of the 100 shares he owns.
Mr Hill also runs Axom Limited, a syndicate management company, which I was unaware of.
- Total Posts 17716
Apparently they do, but it’s interesting that so much of the club’s money goes through other companies run by its director Anthony Hill and that he saw fit to issue dividends of £3,000 per each of the 100 shares he owns.
Thank you, that’s most useful.
Assuming you are talking about the last accounts (2007-2008), presented and accepted before the economic crash, that makes £300,000 (before tax) for his annual Managing Director’s dividend, which is hardly outrageous, is it?
Tony Hill keeps an exceedingly low profile and is rarely if ever seen at the races, leaving the field to the Club staff (he employs 22 full time people) and the Members. I doubt he feels any more emotional investment in the horses (which are owned, let us be clear, by the Club) than any individual member, possibly less.
A back-of-the-envelope calculation will help us see that much of that dividend will be garnered, not from members fees (approx £400K total) but from investment and merchandising. I take it you have the Profit and Loss breakdown, which will enable you to verify that?
The only time I remember him making any public statement was at the time it was rumoured that Sheikh Mohammed had made an approach to buy a share of Soviet Song. He said that the Sheikh was very welcome to pay his £179, if he so choose, to become a member.
Altogether I don’t quite see what startling revelation you are trying to suggest, about a successful businessman whose product is well loved by the majority of his members.
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Do you have any involvement with the club Pinza?
My wife and I are members, yes. So far they haven’t offered to pay me for the good press I’m giving them on this thread (we may live in hope!)
Looking at the posts above i was under the impression they had some 20,000 members at £200 a pop which comes in at revenue of £4m as oppose to £400k or have i got the wrong end of the stick?
Thats the only comment i’d make – a racing string of 16 with a membership income alone of £4m is a bit on the skinny side.
- Total Posts 17716
According to their accounts, apk, the club’s turnover for the year ended February 2008 was £3.0m with an additional £880,000 deferred. The same figure for the year ended February 2007 was £4.5m.
What really surprised me were the costs attributed to the club’s operation. Presumably training fees are classified as costs of sale, but expenditure of £1.2m would still appear excessive given the lack of acquisitions (listed as only £180,000 in the notes attached to the balance sheet). The gross profit figure of £1.8m is decreased further by administration costs (that is how they are labelled in the profit and loss account) of £1.4m, which again seems rather high.
So the club’s profit (after tax) was £322,000, of which £300,000 was paid out as dividends to the sole shareholder, Anthony Hill.
Despite Pinza’s assertions, I’m not searching for a eureka-esque revelation. I simply believe that a club with a turnover approaching £4m should be doing so much more for its members, especially when they don’t actually own any of the horses (valued at £900,000 including breeding stock) or get to see them racing under anything but Elite’s colours. Many of the club’s transactions go through companies owned by Anthony Hill (five are mentioned in the notes on the financial statements), including a syndication company, and all but 7% of the post-tax profits are removed.
If all of the above was true, but there were perhaps 20-30 horses running under members’ colours, I wouldn’t have as much of a problem. As it is there’s only one entity doing well out of the Elite Racing Club’s operation, and that’s the Elite Racing Club.
- Total Posts 17716
If all of the above was true, but there were perhaps 20-30 horses running under members’ colours, I wouldn’t have as much of a problem. As it is there’s only one entity doing well out of the Elite Racing Club’s operation, and that’s the Elite Racing Club.
I am glad you agree that the Elite Racing Club is doing well out of the operation. I guess most of the members would concur with you.
If your "problem" (as you define it) really does boil down to the number of horses in training, then I am happy to let you know that, with the intake of the new 2yo’s, that number has risen to 24. No 2yo Ffestiniog offspring this year (she was given a year off, bless her!) but the Sadlers Wells-Kalinka half sister to Soviet Song is already getting everyone a little excited, as you can imagine.
I hope that helps you sleep just a little more soundly, without too much indigestion over the MD’s £300,000.
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It’s not quite as simple as the club having too few horses in training, but an increase in their ‘portfolio’ due to financial investment would certainly be a start. Unfortunately the impending arrival of a handful of juveniles isn’t enough to alter my opinion of the club’s self-serving operation.
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