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"He’s probably the best we’ve ever had."
Aidan O’Brien said this of Dylan Thomas after the Japan Cup. Does anyone have any views on this? He was a truly admirable and clearly high-class horse but I’d definitely put him behind Galileo in the pecking order and possibly behind High Chaparral and Hawk Wing as well.
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That’s some accolade coming from one who thought the Sun shone out of George Washington – but then again KF said DT was the best he’d ridden a while back, so he must be up there.
Every season we get these "best I’ve ever ridden" comments so I wouldn’t put too much stock in them to be honest.
Dylan Thomas was clearly a very good racehorse, but for me he was beaten too many times on merit (I’m talking about races like the Juddmonte and POW ) to be ranked up there with with the likes of Galileo and High Chaparral. I also think Giant’s Causeway and Rock Of Gibraltar were superior beasts.
He can’t be far behind High Chaparral and Galileo in middle distance department
Think The Rock was best one overall though
What O’Brien actually said was that Dylan Thomas was "the best of this type of horse that we’ve had". I took him to mean middle-distance horses, implying that he deemed him superior to such as Galileo and High Chaparral, although he wasn’t pressed on that point. I don’t think he intended comparisons to miling/10f horses, like Giant’s Causeway or Rock Of Gibraltar, etc.
If O’Brien genuinely thought that DT was the best middle distance horse that Coolmore have ever produced, it makes it all the more bizarre that he was prepared to run him in the state he was in the other day.
Would anyone argue that on those career-defining days when Dylan Thomas came up against a truly top class racehorse, he fell short?
Beating Youmzain (twice), Duke of Marmalade, Ouija Board, Irish Wells, and a very weak Irish derby field does not entitle him to that accolade. Or even come close, admirable horse though he was.
Ridiculous statement, the more I think about it.
Yes, High Chaparall and Galileo were also both beaten on merit, but they also beat top class horses on other days.
If DT had been campaigned solely over 1m4 on good ground, then he wouldn’t have been beaten nearly as many times as he was. He could win 1m2 races but at 1m4 he was a very, very good horse.
Very hard to compare horses that have ran years apart, though.Who was it who trained Istabraq?
Mmmm, wasn’t a certain A P O’Brien was it, at Ballydoyle?
I’d say he was a better horse than anything he has/will train on the Flat.
Does anyone know what Timeform rated his King George? Was it 132?
Dunno which race he was awarded rating ( i presume it was KG) but he had an adjusted rating of 141 for the Arc
He was awarded 132 for the King George.
Do you think it’s a tad high Salselon? If anything imo, it’s a conservative estimation based on what you might expect a 4-length winner of that race to have run to, and collaterally, there’s nothing causing any problems.At 132 it still has everything else in the field not at their best. The only horse really that holds the race down is Dylan Thomas himself. That said, Timeform also have him running to the same figure in the Juddmonte when it could be argued that he was short of room at a crucial stage and Authorized arguably got first run on him. So if anything he could be higher than 132.
Thanks Charlie, they were carrying 9-5 so 141-9=132.
Think you’re right Gareth but do you think that’s a tad high?
I don’t know exactly how Timeform went about rating it, or what ratings they had the horses going into the race on, but based on their Racehorses of 2006 ratings of 125 for Youmzain, 126 for Maarahel and 123 for Laverock I would imagine they would have found it very difficult to justify a rating of anything less than 130, and may have had a case to go a couple of pounds higher than what they settled on.
The Racing Post gave Dylan Thomas a rating of 131 for the race, and the International handicappers currently have him on 128.
To put those ratings into context, Galileo got 134 from Timeform, 132 from the Racing Post and 129 from the International handicappers, whilst High Chaparral got 132 from Timeform, 130 from the Racing Post and 127 from the International handicappers.
(I’m having to Google the Timeform ratings, apologies if they’re wrong)
So he’s right in the mix on those ratings, a pound or two short of Galileo but marginally better than High Chaparral.
I once remember Henry Cecil being quoted as having said that a horse called Sabrehill was the best that he had trained
I think that connections sometimes get a bit carried away with the current stable star.My view FWIW not based on TF or OR but on about 40 years of watching high-class horses is that Dylan was certainly inferior to Galileo and about the same as High Chap. among AOB’s 10-12f horses.
i think its probably fair to say that coolmores comments are timed to coincide with the catalogue going to the printers….
I found his comments a bit suprising even if restricted to middle distance runners. Fattest maybe …
Let’s face it, trainers are not the most objective judges of their charges, are they? They are also forever changing their minds when asked which is the best horse they have trained.
I remember Henry Cecil commenting that Oh So Sharp was the best, then it became Ardross, then a months later in a different interview, it was Reference Point.
Major Dick Hern could never make his mind up over whether Brigadier Gerard or Nashwan was the best he has trained, and Ettiene Pollet, who trained the great Sea Bird, said later that Vaguely Noble was every bit as brilliant and was as equally talented as his ‘ 65 Derby and Arc winner. Hmm..yes Monsieur Pollet, as talented a horse as Vaguely Noble undoubtedly was, I’m just not having it.
Then there’s dear old Vincent (the original and foremost O’Brien), who flits from Sir Ivor and Nijinsky and back again as his choice, and sometimes throws Alleged into the mix to add to the confusion and uncertainty.
As for Aiden O’Brien ; I don’t think he knows himself – "ah sure, they’re all good horses", he’ll say. Dylan Thomas, his best? Possibly, but Galileo would surely have given him something to think about. One thing I am certain of though – it certainly wasn’t George Washington. Now that, I’m definitely not having.
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I think that connections sometimes get a bit carried away with the current stable star.
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