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Ok. wasnt "easy" but would hardly have expected to be from that decent field?
But you cannot seriously say he was replicating that running on Saturday?
Arcalis is an extreme example of course, because he is in and out as we know. But the huge margins either way indicate enough
Theres no doubting that the racing public (myself included) got a bit carried away with DC earlier in the season. But for anyone to say that his last two runs were on the same lines as his previous form is plain stupid. There’s mental issues afoot with this horse. As for the horse just being a "bully", I don’t think so. He won the Cesarewitch from well back against decent class flat horses. There is defo no physical reason for the two flops. I just fear that he may have lost his enthusiasm and may never regain it. He may be the Stan Collymore of horse racing!
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Quote: from jazza23 on 9:03 pm on April 16, 2007[br]Theres no doubting that the racing public (myself included) got a bit carried away with DC earlier in the season. But for anyone to say that his last two runs were on the same lines as his previous form is plain stupid. There’s mental issues afoot with this horse. As for the horse just being a "bully", I don’t think so. He won the Cesarewitch from well back against decent class flat horses. There is defo no physical reason for the two flops. I just fear that he may have lost his enthusiasm and may never regain it. He may be the Stan Collymore of horse racing!
<br>Hiya Jazza; plain stupid here.;) :biggrin:
My evidence for his bad runs is in the form book; your evidence for him being… ‘a bit of a bully’….’has mental issues’… ‘has lost his enthusiasm and may never regain it’ and his being …’The Stan Collymore of racing’ exist where?<br>Perhaps one of such strong opinions should be prepared to support them with hard cash, or are you just another windbag? :o  <br>
(Edited by reet hard at 12:29 am on April 17, 2007)
Quote: from reet hard on 6:36 am on April 16, 2007[br]Detroit City ran almost a carbon copy of his CH run, on very similar ground.
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<br>14.76 per furlong Aintree<br>14.28 per furlong Cheltenham
<br>If you believe RPR handicappers are summat like, DC has run 30lbs below his Cheltenham run,
The average per furlong is slightly slower at Aintree, the ground about the same
<br>So how do you explain the this, when you stated that the different pace and distance would show your theory correct at Aintree, surely for our theory to be correct, DC should have run better at Aintree, not 30lb worse
(Edited by empty wallet at 1:47 am on April 17, 2007)
And jazza, blue shark, welcome to the forum<br>
(Edited by empty wallet at 2:41 am on April 17, 2007)
Personally I think Detroit City is crying out for a break and needs to be freshened up. Since his debut in 2005 he has run in 19 races with the only semblance of a ‘break’ being before the highly competitive Ces at Newmarket. His races in the past year or so have mostly been highly competitive (Triumph Hdl, Ces, Anniversary Hdl, Ch hdl, etc) and there is no doubt that this will take a great deal out of a young horse. I don’t agree with the theory that he has temperament problems nor do I believe that his last 2 runs were his true form. I think the horse has done more than enough for his connections for the time being and is entitled to a hard earned break without being aimed at a major flat handicap this season so that he comes back fresh for next season’s hurdle/chase campaign. All these sectional time theories I am reading, although interesting, in this case don’t take into account that DC is not a machine.
Quote: from empty wallet on 1:44 am on April 17, 2007[br]And jazza, blue shark, welcome to the forum
<br>(Edited by empty wallet at 2:41 am on April 17, 2007)<br>
EW, I might be being thick but surely when you run an extra 4f you’re going to run a slower time per furlong? Logic would suggest that to be the case anyway.
Plus the CH was a much better race.
Edited: Wrong quote, but you know what I mean!!! <br>
(Edited by Aragorn at 9:33 am on April 17, 2007)
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EW
2 questions:
Why were the blinkers left off, any reason that you could fully justify would be acceptable?<br>Why were they felt necessary in his previous 9 races, and, his intoductory novice hurdles apart, for most of his career?
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Detroit City clearly needs a break, i dont think it is so much to do with how many runs he has had because he has only had 6 runs this year, but he has been in training a long time as his first run was in October, meaning he has been doing serious work since last August and maybe before. Thats 9 months of going up the gallops, and for some horses that is plenty.<br>Hopefully he will be back next year, but i wouldnt be suprised if we dont see him until December time for the Bula. <br>I think describing horses as bullies etc is abit stupid really, and if anything he is a thinker, and i would iagine he thinks he has worked hard enough this season.<br>He could do with some hunting imo to freshen him up, it will be a real shame if the real Detroit City has gone
Quote: from dave 22 on 10:18 am on April 17, 2007[br]I think describing horses as bullies etc is abit stupid really,
Why? There is still societal order amongst horses even if they aren’t as intelligent as humans. Animals in the wild bully each other for food when growing up, it’s not a stupid concept. Or only as stupid as saying DC was thinking, "FFS i’ve got to go out again, and then run at Cheltenham and Aintree? You w@nker hobbs, i’ll show you, you slave driver"
Im not sure how much food, water, stable or gates were on offer during the races to be honest, and in my experience thats about all horses fight/bully about!<br>No of course the horse doesnt think "FFS i’ve got to go out again, and then run at Cheltenham and Aintree? You w@nker hobbs, i’ll show you, you slave driver"<br>but they are capable of being bored, tired, fed up, etc, which seems to affect more horses than others, and are known in the horsey world as thinkers.
Dave,
I’d argue that as horses are pack animals there would be a natural tendency to want to get to the front of the pack to demonstrate superiority amongst peers. This would be an innate instinct rather than conscious thought and would manifest itself by horses trying to overface/bully other horses. If they are capable of being bored, then I think they are capable of being competitive and thats effectively what i’m getting at. When DC couldn’t be as competitive or agressive as usual due to the better class of animal he was facing he effectively spat his dummy.. Just my view though.
Or, the betting public just got it totally wrong!!!
Quote: from Aragorn on 9:12 am on April 17, 2007[br]
EW, I might be being thick but surely when you run an extra 4f you’re going to run a slower time per furlong? Logic would suggest that to be the case anyway.
Plus the CH was a much better race.
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<br>Aragorn, correct m8, so reet has his scenario for proving his pace and distance theory correct
<br>reet
Instead of explaining, you’ve asked me a question, think it says enough and to answer you, i ain’t a clue tbh
naps, i would tend to agree, you can only go to the well so many times
(Edited by empty wallet at 12:28 pm on April 17, 2007)
Dave, you say only 6 runs, but look at how competitive his races were. Prior to that he had a tough juvenile campaign culminating in 2 grade ones. With few exceptions Triumph Hurdle winners don’t often make the grade and are huge disappointments the following season. This is usually due to the the fact that the Triumph is such a tough race that it takes every ounce of their spirit and resolution to win. The fact that DC had done so well up to the CH is testament to his toughness. But fatigue will eventually prevail.
I agree wholeheartedly with Aragorn about horses’ ability to be bullies. My own Lemon Silk is a perfect example. Let out in the paddock this winter with the other 3yo’s, whenever it was feeding time he became aggressive towards all the other horses so that he could attack the food on his own. Eventually, he had to be held by a lad so that the others could feed. I’m now hoping he will show this scrappy attitude on the racecourse, lol.
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So maybe we should burn the form books, train as horse whisperers, and invest in an enormous psychiatric couch.:biggrin: <br>You guys slay me.
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