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Ralph Beckett has stated Look Here will race anywhere Sea The Star’s isn’t.
Completely the wrong attitude for me. Thankfully Paul Nicholls doesn’t share this attitude regarding Kauto Star and Denman or we would’ve all missed out on two cracking Cheltenham Gold Cups.
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I’m fairly sure Ralph Beckett’s tongue was somewhere near his cheek when he said that, Ian, but a trainer’s job is to place his (or her) horses to best effect. If the owner wants wins rather than (potentially distant) seconds, why not look elsewhere if suitable races can be found?
I’m fairly sure Ralph Beckett’s tongue was somewhere near his cheek when he said that, Ian, but a trainer’s job is to place his (or her) horses to best effect. If the owner wants wins rather than (potentially distant) seconds, why not look elsewhere if suitable races can be found?
To a degree but what is to say Look Here can’t beat Sea The Stars. Looking at bare facts Sea The Stars won the Derby by 1 3/4 lengths not ten. He has an RPR of 124 not 134.
If everybody shared that attitude there’d be no competition in the sport.
Ralph Beckett has stated Look Here will race anywhere Sea The Star’s isn’t.
Completely the wrong attitude for me. Thankfully Paul Nicholls doesn’t share this attitude regarding Kauto Star and Denman or we would’ve all missed out on two cracking Cheltenham Gold Cups.
Totally Different scenario Ian. For a start Ralph Beckett is not the leading trainer in his sphere and he doesn’t train both horses.
And Paul Nicholls only lets Kauto and Denman clash once a year…at Cheltenham. Beckett was probably intimating that Look Here’s next run will not be against Sea the Stars but who’s to say come Arc weekend, if Look Here has won a couple that he may change his mind, even if STS has swept all before him this summer.
As for the derby itself, whether you do or dont think Sea The Stars is a Superstar, one thing must be agreed upon…the best horse won the race. And for my money, he’d have won it regardless of pace in the race.
Only disappointment is that an assault on the Leger is unlikely. It is very frustrating that racing has become about winning over certain distances to gain breeding Kudos than about winning the triple crown. Its no exaggeration to say a Triple Crown winner is a once in a lifetime achievement…and IF Sea The Stars turns up at Town Moor you can just imagine the Media frenzy. At a time when racing needs all the publicity it can get…that would be amazing. I can but dream…
Ralph Beckett has stated Look Here will race anywhere Sea The Star’s isn’t.
Completely the wrong attitude for me. Thankfully Paul Nicholls doesn’t share this attitude regarding Kauto Star and Denman or we would’ve all missed out on two cracking Cheltenham Gold Cups.
Totally Different scenario Ian. For a start Ralph Beckett is not the leading trainer in his sphere and he doesn’t train both horses.
And Paul Nicholls only lets Kauto and Denman clash once a year…at Cheltenham. Beckett was probably intimating that Look Here’s next run will not be against Sea the Stars but who’s to say come Arc weekend, if Look Here has won a couple that he may change his mind, even if STS has swept all before him this summer.
As for the derby itself, whether you do or dont think Sea The Stars is a Superstar, one thing must be agreed upon…the best horse won the race. And for my money, he’d have won it regardless of pace in the race.
Only disappointment is that an assault on the Leger is unlikely. It is very frustrating that racing has become about winning over certain distances to gain breeding Kudos than about winning the triple crown. Its no exaggeration to say a Triple Crown winner is a once in a lifetime achievement…and IF Sea The Stars turns up at Town Moor you can just imagine the Media frenzy. At a time when racing needs all the publicity it can get…that would be amazing. I can but dream…
Agree; slightly silly question, but when is the fascination with speed, speed, speed going to end? Where are the future stayers/NH horses going to come from? I don’t want us to become like US, were the Breeders Cup Marathon is over 1m4f – Ridiculous!!
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Regardless of whether Aidan O’Brien’s runners had set a more searching pace, the result would have been the same, in my opinion. Sea The Stars simply oozes class, and I cannot for the life of me envisage any of the others ( Rip Van Winkle included
) getting the better of him over the same distance, or indeed, a mile and a quarter. It was the performance of a very high class horse. If John Oxx chose to run him at Sandown instead of sending him to The Curragh, then the rest will be running for place money – Tartan Bearer and Conduit included.
Himself
Proving himself against an ordinary Derby field is a lot different to proving himself against top international opposition, and I’d be amazed if he had the legs of such as Conduit.
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Himself
Proving himself against an ordinary Derby field is a lot different to proving himself against top international opposition, and I’d be amazed if he had the legs of such as Conduit.
Maybe so, but yesterday Sea The Stars convinced me that he is no ordinary racehorse, and history tells you that any colt who wins the 2,000gns and Derby usually turns out to be above average.
I think Conduit is a really good colt, but I’m certain that Sea The Stars will have his measure should they clash.
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Regardless of whether Aidan O’Brien’s runners had set a more searching pace, the result would have been the same, in my opinion. Sea The Stars simply oozes class, and I cannot for the life of me envisage any of the others ( Rip Van Winkle included
) getting the better of him over the same distance, or indeed, a mile and a quarter. It was the performance of a very high class horse. If John Oxx chose to run him at Sandown instead of sending him to The Curragh, then the rest will be running for place money – Tartan Bearer and Conduit included.
Himself
Proving himself against an ordinary Derby field is a lot different to proving himself against top international opposition, and I’d be amazed if he had the legs of such as Conduit.
That was not an ordinary field, it was a top class one imo, just the pace set was ordinary so it was a shame he didn’t get to see a quicker test, we will get one at The Curragh though.
Well, I was wide of the mark with my assertion that Sea The Stars wouldn’t stay. He stayed well enough although I was totally confused by the sedate pace set by the O’Brien pair up front. Perhaps they thought STS would be disappointed by the slow pace and wouldn’t settle. Kinane did say afterwards that he was worried at one point that STS was ‘over-racing’ so maybe they were right to try that tactic, if, indeed, that was what they were trying.
He’ll be an awesome horse at 10F but how I’d dearly love it if they sent him to Doncaster.
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As "H" pointed out he never won the Derby by 10 lengths but I’m not sure that is too much of an indication of how superior he is to the other 3 year olds. He doesn’t have great acceleration he just seems to travel so well and when asked lengthens his stride and steadily but surely puts enough daylight between himself and his nearest challenger.
With what’s around if he went for Irish Derby or the St Leger, despite the distance of the latter I can’t imagine anything beating him. I would imagine in the latter very few will be willing to take him on.
Someone said he might run in the Eclipse but the only place I have read the is Big Mac’s article saying he would like to. I doubt they will want to take on Conduit who I was assured weeks ago will be going to Sandown.
You never know John Oxx may reconsider sending him for the St leger when he sees the opposition but the man has already named some tragets for him and the race isn’t on the list.
You must have missed John Oxx’s post race interview yesterday Fist – stated the horse needed fast ground, that it hadn’t stopped raining in Ireland for 2.5 years, and they might well wait a week after the Curragh for Sandown.
Conduit is surely not quick enough for a 10f Group 1, not in my opinion anyway. Will suprised if he even runs, no source to that just my own opinion.
I’m amazed that people think this was an average Derby. I think we’ve seen a superstar.
I backed Gan Amhras and Black Bear Island antepost so that was disappointing. Backed the winner on the day after seeing the paddock shots. He’d definitely come on from the guineas.
I would run him in the Irish Derby next and if it comes up softish (Which it probably will), there is a strong pace (Which there will be) and he still wins gear him up for a tilt at the King George/Arc. If he gets beaten then go the 1m/1m2f route. My view is that winning the Arc is a far greater test of a thoroughbred than the Leger so i’d be against the triple crown if he was mine as the best horses generally line up in the Arc.
Aragorn – you only get one chance at the Triple Crown, the Arc can be next year or the year after. There is an Arc winner every year – there is a Triple Crown winner every 30 years?
Whom do you remember most vividly from 1970 – Nijinsky or the Arc winner?
Strangely drama free race…but class does that sometimes.
Cant have it that it was a poor race (the time to judge that is probably October) but the winner of every conceivable trial was present plus some horses reopposing after defeats in the Gunieas.Its easy to forgot how much Motivator and Authorized were lionised after wide margin Derby wins before proving good but not great but this horse really does have the aura of a Nijinsky about him.
Only his limitation that he is ‘ground dependant’, according to his trainer, may stop him from being an all time great.
Strangely drama free race…but class does that sometimes.
Cant have it that it was a poor race (the time to judge that is probably October) but the winner of every conceivable trial was present plus some horses reopposing after defeats in the Gunieas.Its easy to forgot how much Motivator and Authorized were lionised after wide margin Derby wins before proving good but not great but this horse really does have the aura of a Nijinsky about him.
Only his limitation that he is ‘ground dependant’, according to his trainer, may stop him from being an all time great.
I don’t know about the ‘aura’ surrounding Nijinsky but visually and in terms of achievement at this stage there is no comparison. Nijinsky was a Champion at two and won the first two Classics under a hands and heels ride.
It just seems people are desperate to give a very good horse a ‘superstar’ tag. Why?
I don’t know about Conduit but I would think Presvis is very close to being the best around at 10f and nobody has described him as a superstar.
Strangely drama free race…but class does that sometimes.
Cant have it that it was a poor race (the time to judge that is probably October) but the winner of every conceivable trial was present plus some horses reopposing after defeats in the Gunieas.Its easy to forgot how much Motivator and Authorized were lionised after wide margin Derby wins before proving good but not great but this horse really does have the aura of a Nijinsky about him.
Only his limitation that he is ‘ground dependant’, according to his trainer, may stop him from being an all time great.
I don’t know about the ‘aura’ surrounding Nijinsky but visually and in terms of achievement at this stage there is no comparison. Nijinsky was a Champion at two and won the first two Classics under a hands and heels ride.
It just seems people are desperate to give a very good horse a ‘superstar’ tag. Why?
I don’t know about Conduit but I would think Presvis is very close to being the best around at 10f and nobody has described him as a superstar.
Romance. Everyone wants to see greatness its natural. I’m no different I want to see Legends and look back in years to come and think "Yeah I saw him he was the best horse I ever saw".
People do get carried away and to call Sea The Stars the new Nijinsky at this stage would be laughable. Lets see how this form works out I’m far from convinced that this years three year olds are any good or that Sea The Stars would’ve beaten Zarkava for example who I do think as a filly has to go down as an all time great she beat the colts, she beat the older horses and she did something Sea The Stars cannot do – she retired unbeaten and unextended.
Agree with you to a certain extent, but people get carried away with Derby winner because of the prestige the race still carry’s. Presvis winning the Honk Kong / Singapore Flower Pot or whatever just doesn’t capture the imagination like The Derby does. It just captures bucket loads of cash!
The day people treat The Derby as just another Group 1 will be a sad day i think.
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