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Beeswing…..Sometimes when a horse doesn’t settle he wont take too much out of himself. Last years Derby winner would be a good example of that. Others get so worked up they can burn themsleves out very quickly. Gan Ahmras did exactly that but no blame can be put on the shoulders of Kevin Manning. When a horse gets into that state it doesn’t matter what you do he’ll burn himslef out even if you let him stride out.
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Sea the Stars peformace was very similar to the of his Guineas win. He was just too good for them but I think it’s too early to be hanging the "Superstar" tag round his neck. When 4 horses finish 2 lengths behind in a bunch it can often be a sign of the form not being too clever.However the pace wasn’t that quick and when races turn into a sprint horses do tend to finish closer together. Had it been a much stronger gallop Sea the Stars may well have beaten them even further.
I hope we get the chance to see him run against his seniors in top races like the King George and the Arc but it looks doubtful. His trainer immediatly named the International, The Irish Derby and Champion Stakes as possible targets.
I am no expert on stud values but I reckon they will do everything they can to make sure he retires unbeaten He’s won the 2000 Guineas and the Derby which these days is something very special. His stud value must already be through the roof. Would adding the Irish Derby and for talking stakes the International at York not take it to near enough take that value top of the tree.
If he ran in the Arc and lost perhaps his value of a stallion could be affected?
I notice the bookies couldn’t wait to drop him into the King George and Eclipse markets to catch some mug punters despite the trainer not even mentioning them as possible targets. He may well go the Nashwan route but I doubt it.
Despite the result Johnny Murtagh was right to have gone with Rip Van Winkle IMO. He looked to get the trip very well and looked like he could get even further. He took much longer than the 2nd 3rd to get going and would have finished 2nd had he not. I doubt if any of the AOB horses will beat him again. You could see what Murtagh sees in him and when he got into full flight he did look the business.
Whether any of AOB’s are good enough to be taking on the likes of Conduit I doubt and Sea the Stars may never meet him or Tartan Bearer for that matter.
when you send Urban Sea to Sadler’s Wells, you get Galileo.
when you send her to Cape Cross, you get Sea The Stars.
for me the guide to STS distance is to be had from the dam. she hit her highest ratings over 12f (indeed won the Arc in heavy by a neck from White Muzzle, Opera House 1/2 length third), but did most of her winning at 10f. i think that’s why Oxx was talking up 10f for STS from now on – certainly forget the Leger.
the Tsuis allowed Coolmore to keep Galileo, but decided not to let Darley keep Sea The Stars.
my guess is that Sh Mo may now try to get them to change their mind on that score, since getting STS would be a big step towards breaking the Coolmore stranglehold on the breeding side.
the Coolmore strategy of multiple runners in the Derby does look like chucking multiple darts at the board in the hope one will stick – they know they need to find a successor to Sadler’s Wells, and quick, or lose at least a chunk of the dominance to which they’ve become accustomed.
Firstly I should say that I am delighted that we have a dual classic winner and it wouldbe great if John Oxx went for the Leger with him. Horse probably has next to no chance but would lose very little in defeat IMO.
Regarding the race yesterday, presumably Coolmore were trying to set a slowish pace so that RVW would get home and win a Derby for them. All the talk lately has been that he is their "sexiest" potential stallion so it made more commercial sense to try to win with him than with any of the stayers.
There’s no benefit in STS going for the Irish Derby now because now that RVW has been beaten twice in both English Classics, there is no way that Coolmore won’t make that race a stamina test.
In addition, I’m no meteorologist but we are having a horrific summer over here and I would be very surprised if the ground came up better than Gd/Sft by the time the Irish Derby comes around.
Has it been totally dismissed the chances of Sea The Stars going on to the St.Leger ?
Should i be embarrassed for even asking ?
Has it been totally dismissed the chances of Sea The Stars going on to the St.Leger ?
If you go to the link below and in the big box at the top Media Centre click on the Racing Post Television tab, and then click on The Triple Crown? video, you’ll hear what trainer and jockey said about it yesterday.
Oxx says he fears that if he suggested it, Michael would be worried he was finally losing his marbles:
If Oxx hasn’t even spoken of contesting the 1m4f races, the St. Leger talk sounds like media hype and nothing else.
Besides, hasn’t the Triple Crown ethos changed, where the King George is considered the final test of the 3YO?
Has it been totally dismissed the chances of Sea The Stars going on to the St.Leger ?
If you go to the link below and in the big box at the top Media Centre click on the Racing Post Television tab, and then click on The Triple Crown? video, you’ll hear what trainer and jockey said about it yesterday.
Oxx says he fears that if he suggested it, Michael would be worried he was finally losing his marbles:
Thanks wit, having listened i am going to take it as a doubtful rather then totally ruling it out.
I think thats spot on Davidbrady. Too much was made of how jockey bookings arent that relevant at Ballydoyle but once Murtagh opted for RVW it was still a fair bet that he was the main target.
And that set things up nicely for STS…worked out how i thought
But on the other hand STS looked so much stronger than the others that he would have won regardless imo. I think he idles slightly in front so i am not that concerned about the poximity of the fairly well beaten horses.
Presumably because he was an outsider Golden Sword’s run appears to have been overlooked. As a potential Leger/Cup horse he would have been the one most inconvenienced by the slow pace. In a true test of stamina I strongly suspect he would have finished in the three yesterday. Sadly, it appears he was sacrificed for the sake of Rip Van Winkle and he deserves plenty of credit for finishing as close as he did.
I think Rip Van Winkle will meet Sea The Stars every where they go now, both will be dropped back I suspect, but I like to see Sea The Stars go to Ascot next month and maybe a shot at The Arc, although Oxx was touting the shorter distance races like the Eclipse and International.
Fame And Glory needed a fast pace and his connections didn’t give him that, but he will be the one they will have to beat at The Curragh as I suspect they will run Liszt and set a thunderous pace for him. I don’t think he’ll meet the Derby winner there so he would be the one for me. He is the best middle distance horse Coolmore have this season for me.
Masterofthehorse ran a huge race, he has never been for me but he was ridden to perfection by Richard Hughes who ran like New Approach and Tartan Bearer last year.
Rip Van Winkle impressed me also, shame they pinpointed him as their best chance as he wasn’t but he should improve massively for a step down to 1m2f, there is a Group 1 in him but he’ll meet the winner more often or not.
Golden Sword, I’m really starting to like this horse, honest and very brave, to run like that in an Epsom Derby is a real credit to the jockey and the horse.
Crowded House another who needs to run in the 1m2f races, Masterofthehorse has now probably surpassed him since Croweded House stuffed him, but Meehan will be a lot happier since his awful Dante run.
Age Of Aquarius is just probably not up to this level, I can’t see him winning any big races, but he is a game sort.
Debussy again isn’t the best although there could be a Gp3 for him.
Kite Wood was beaten before the race had started.
Black Bear Island was a massive disappointment more so than Gan Amhras, he looked to have come on tremendously in The Dante, but something surely must have been a miss here.
Gan Amhras didn’t stay, he will also be dropped back in trip I think, maybe a mile campaign maybe even thought about he is entered for the St. James, I guess he would go there with a great chance considering his Guineas run.
Montaff, ran bad and ran like his odds suggested he would but I was pretty surprised how bad he was, I guess he didn’t like the track.
When I first got interested in flat racing it was Nashwan’s year, and it’s wonderful to see another horse achieve the double. I think Sea the Stars is something very special, and I think the trainer is an absolute gentleman and deserves such an amazing horse. Crowded House ran a good race all things considered, and I’m going to keep an eye on him in future races. Bit gutted that Golden Sword didn’t hang on for third place, though!
I backed Rip Van Winkle in the belief that he would improve and that he was Ballydoyle’s number one, and also that Sea The Stars wouldn’t stay.
However, I was totally wrong in the latter assessment. Sea The Stars not only stays, but proved without a shadow of doubt that he is a class above the rest. He travelled with consumate ease throughout and never at any stage looked in danger. He has a wonderful laid back temperament and nothing seems to fluster him. A true equine star.
Regardless of whether Aidan O’Brien’s runners had set a more searching pace, the result would have been the same, in my opinion. Sea The Stars simply oozes class, and I cannot for the life of me envisage any of the others ( Rip Van Winkle included
) getting the better of him over the same distance, or indeed, a mile and a quarter. It was the performance of a very high class horse. If John Oxx chose to run him at Sandown instead of sending him to The Curragh, then the rest will be running for place money – Tartan Bearer and Conduit included.
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I was surprised he went off at 11-4 so couldn’t resist having a few quid on him as he provided he stayed he looked the class horse of the race. I was impressed with STS and I think he won it with quite a bit in hand and got the trip well. His pedigree has splenty of stamina on the dam’s side but Cape Cross’s pedigree also has stamina in it and of course he also sired Ouija Board.
Oxx seems to think STS needs good fast ground so it seems that may be the key factor in where he goes next so if it is soft in Ireland the Eclipse may well be the route he goes down. Judging by his entries they think he is better over a mile and 10 furlongs as he has entries in the St James Palace though that will be a bit too soon, Irish Derby, Eclipse, Sussex and Irish Champion.
It would be great to see him go for the Leger and on qood ground he could well be good enough to stay. If I was the owner I would give it a go as the chance to have a Triple Crown winner won’t come along again.
Sea The Stars will race in either The Irish Derby or the Eclipse Stakes if the conditions don’t suit.
If he wins The Irish Derby surely he will stay at 1m4f.
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Oxx would be mad not to send him for the Eclipse – he’ll be an absolute monster over ten furlongs.
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