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Denman vs Kauto Star: Betfair Chase?

Home Forums Horse Racing Denman vs Kauto Star: Betfair Chase?

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  • #7123
    • Total Posts 72

    I see Mr Nicholls reckons the rematch won’t happen until the 2009 Gold Cup.

    However there is the small matter of the £1 million Betfair-sponsored triple-crown bonus of the Betfair Chase, King George and Gold Cup.

    A million quid is a million quid (which, we must remember, Denman cost Mr Smith with his win). Surely the owners of both horses (esp. Mr Findley) believe their charges are justified in going for this sum and therefore it is, dare I say it, inevitable that they will meet at Haydock.

    If indeed that does happen what if Kauto wins? Then I can see each horse following similar routes to Cheltenham as this year. However should Denman win, what to do with Kauto Star then?

    In fact if Betfair were clever they would boost the bonus to something much bigger. It would be the most anticipated rematch in decades; the Betfair Chase, largely to determine (in the public’s mind) the eventual winner of the Betfair bonus.

    The value of the publicity alone would cover the cost.

    • Total Posts 31

    i dnt think there is anyway Denman could win all three, to sharp for him

    • Total Posts 529

    The Lexus is also part of the series so he wouldn’t need to run in the KG.

    IMO Denman would probably have won at Haydock this season in those conditions and therefore scooped the million.

    • Total Posts 4491

    Whilst I’d love to see the rematch at Haydock. The prospect of seeing Denman in the Hennessy off 185 is almost as appealing.

    • Total Posts 1593

    I’d have to say I think Denman running in the Hennessey off 185 would make for a farce of a race, although the inevitable sight of him trotting up the finishing straight at Newbury on his own again is one which I will struggle to ever tire of.

    And I’d forgotten that the Lexus was an alternative to the King George in the BF Million series. That makes things very interesting in terms of a Haydock rematch, as now the BF chase over 3m at Haydock becomes Denman’s weakest race of the three and I wouldn’t say that’s anywhere near as ill-suiting to The Tank as the King George would be.

    • Total Posts 1982

    Denman for the King George. Both he and Kauto Star could have a prep run beforehand and take each other on again at Kempton.

    Denman may be ill-suited by the King George, but great horses can win under any conditions, like Kauto Star. Never be a great horse to me unless he can show some sign of versatility.

    Oh well, I guess it’s always going to be left-handed, galloping tracks on soft ground for Denman…

    The Judge
    • Total Posts 74

    I think there’s almost no chance of them clashing at Kempton, why would connections when there’s two nice pots to chase at Kempton and Leopardstown over Christmas? Three miles at Leopardstown seems a match made in heaven for Denman, off this year’s performances. For me, the only chance of a clash is the Betfair Chase because of the cash on offer.

    If you owned Denman, and on the back of Friday’s win, would you be tempted to have a pop at Haydock’s cash carrot? I would be…

    • Total Posts 1147

    Harry Findlay has already said that Denman won’t go for the King George, for the simple reason that he knows they can’t beat Kauto Star over a flat 3m – and I doubt whether Haydock represents a more realistic chance of success.

    If I were Clive Smith, I’d do the unexpected and send Kauto Star to Ireland for the Lexus…just to rock the boat a little bit.

    • Total Posts 6965

    I’m sure the “new improved” Haydock represents no more realistic a chance of success, LGR, and the Nicholls camp was pretty emphatic in the Post yesterday that that course is too sharp for Denman now in its revised incarnation.


    The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.

    • Total Posts 72

    But that’s exactly my point. Mr Nicholls may think its "too sharp" but the owners may insist. If the bonus was in fact £2 million, then I can’t see how the owners’ would turn it down.

    To be honest, perhaps it would tempt the trainer also – he would get his share of the prize also, a not inconsiderable sum. And having two chances is better than one.

    • Total Posts 5407

    Purely a bit of amusing speculation of course but my crystal ball suggests that by next season connections will have realised that these two very different horses will only contest chases that play to their strengths, and allow their 180+ form to surface:

    Denman – Hennessy, Lexus, Gold Cup
    Kauto Star – Betfair, King George, Ryanair, Melling

    So will Cashman’s decision to offer 8/1 KS for the GC be proven inspired or foolhardy?

    I err on the side of inspired

    • Total Posts 6965

    I concur, Drone.

    Robin, I genuinely think both owners are as candid and aware of the relative optimum conditions for their respective animals as the trainer is in this instance, and I’d rate it unlikely that Findlay would overrule Nicholls – and in all probability Barber as well – and insist Denman took in the Betfair Chase. He certainly gives the impression of wanting the kudos of (part-)owning a multiple Gold Cup winner more than his share of an extra million quid.


    The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.

    Neil Watson
    • Total Posts 1376

    From a personal point of view i would love to see Denman run in the Charlie Hall at Wetherby so all Northern racing fans can see the champ run and have Kauto in the Betfair at Haydock which is my local.

    Although the James Nicholson at Down Royal is an option i do hope he comes oop north

    Ten Plus
    • Total Posts 812

    I’d love to see Denman and Kauto in the North too! Preferably Haydock!
    :D :D :D

    • Total Posts 337

    Mind you if both big guns do appear at Haydock hopefully Stormez will come out of retirement and someone will puncture the tyres on the fences on the morning of the race thus ensuring that they are rendered immovable from the centre of the course for the entire day and Stormez will prevail at the princely price of 1000/1.

    It could happen you know.

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