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He was amazing in the Hennessy but it hardly took balls. It was the obvious race for him
No it wasn’t obvious. How many owners these days run their top class chasers in handicaps?
And where is the proof that Haydock doesnt suit him? Anyway i’ll leave that one out. The Charlie Hall, then the Lexus in Ireland, the Aon, and the Gold Cup would be a nice easy list for him bringing in a lot of prize money along the way.
Denman is a fine big chaser and the national seems the race for him, however if he was mine i would not run him ok he has probably got over his heart problems but if you were a human and had heart problems your doctor would tell you exersize was good for you but he would not expect you to put a pack full of stones on your back and run up a hill which is what denman will be asked to do.
Great idea, just hope the handicapper is fair and doesn’t favour him too much at the expense of the other runners in the race.
They should be going 16/1 the field when the weights come out not Denman 8/1 fav, 20/1 bar.I’m not saying Denman should be spared a National entry just because i and many other people find him endearing and a joy to watch, yet another horse with the same problems as Denman should be risked because i haven’t heard of him. I felt the same way about Butlers Cabin and i’m happy that he will not be lining up in this years National.
Personally i have no problems with the Grand National, i enjoy watching and betting on it, therefore, i have no problems with horses that are enjoying racing, are jumping well and are in top mental and physical condition being declared. Had Denman been entered in his prime i may have felt differently, or even if he hadn’t had his heart problems but he’s not in his prime and he has had his difficulties and IMO he is high risk for the National. Don’t forget after his fall at Aintree and his unseating at Newbury had was deemed higher risk and had to be checked by a vet before Cheltenham, some people may think this was an over reaction but i don’t believe we can ever be seen to be doing too much for horse welfare.
It’s tragic and heartbreaking when horses that seemed to be in fine physical, mental and jumping form fall and die, but if no one could see it coming we can’t prevent it. However, to knowingly enter a horse that has a greater risk than others of falling or having a heart attack in the National is just plain wrong, and it will give racing a bad reputation. Denman is one of very few horses in recent years to be featured on the ITV news, many people who aren’t into racing have heard of him and if, hypothetical, he did run in the National and the worst happened it would not go unreported. Many people who are not into racing will only see a black and white picture, a horse of eleven years old with a history of heart problems comes to grief in the National, why was he there? Lets ban the National and NH racing completely.
Now i could be very wrong here, these are of course just my own opinions, Denman may well run around Aintree at the age of eleven years old over 4m4f and Grand National fences for the first time carrying 11st 10lbs like a spring buck, winning by lengths, but somehow i doubt it.
I dont like Findlay,
I dont think he really cares about the wellbeing of his horses at the end of the day.Take Desert Quest for example
He wins the county hurdle 2006.
Upon winning at Ascot in October of 2006 Findlay describes him as the most exciting and quickest hurdler since Istabraq.
The horse clearly starts to decline in early 2007 so Findlay gets rid of him. One year later the horse is dead.
hadn’t been sold and was getting the best possible care at the time of his death. It’s easy to make slanderous coments on forums but the truth is that Desert Quest’s tragic death was so upsetting and shocking for everyone involved that the girl caring for him has now left the industry. To imply no one cared for the horse is foolish.
Also for the record Desert Quest won a Novice Chase in Mar 08 and then got to within 2 1/4 of Poquelin in the Bet365 Hurdle at Sandown in April 2008 (with Pigeon Island behind him).
By the way Ouninpohja is also dead although The Racing Post have not updated his status….
While most owners will try and get good homes for their horses very few will actually give them away and provide cash for their care something which Findlay has done on many occasions.As I say it’s fine to dislike people but in this case you are attacking Findlay in an area (horse welfare) where his record is second to none.
Just feel Findlay is more interested in the prize that goes with the National race rather than the glory…
This notion that Findlay doesn’t look after his horses is ridiculous. Read the story about his greyhound "big fella thanks" and how well Findlay looked after him in his retirement. I have also heard he frequently gives to Horse Racing charities.
He has always said that the horse essentially belongs to Paul Barber and he is "the apple of Paul’s eye". I cant see Barber running Denman if there was any risk. I remember Findlay saying back after Denman’s heart problem that if there was any concern over Denman’s wellbeing that they would retire him immediately. Hardly the words of a greedy owner.
Remember that if his owners hadn’t the "balls" to run him twice in the hennessy under top weight, we would never have the memories of those great performances. They could have taken the easy option of running him in the numerous grade 1 3 milers. They haven’t been afraid to pitch Denman in at the deep end, part of the reason he is held so dear by the public. His legacy will be heightened further by an appearance in the national.
"They haven’t been afraid to pitch Denman in at the deep end, part of the reason he is held so dear by the public. His legacy will be heightened further by an appearance in the national."
It won’t if he falls on the first circuit. Even with a clear round the combination of weight and age spells defeat by lesser horses.
There are a number of reasons why Denman shouldn’t be in the Grand National, but his fame isn’t one of them. If he’s "too valuable" to risk in the National, what does that say about the perception of the race? Are the lightweight stayers somehow more expendable, that their owners are willing to place them in a 4 1/2 mile 40-horse steeplechase? If the danger (or perceived danger) of racing a horse in the National is preventing top horses from racing in it, then there’s no reason for it to be considered as a test of champions.
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That’s very sixties thinking if you don’t mind me saying so.
The Grand National is one of the most sought after prizes in racing and some really top class horses have run in it.
Like any steeplechase there is danger assocciated to it and yes the bigger fences and larger fields make it even more so.
However in NH racing that’s just part of the game and if you have the horse?
Someone mentioned Jonjo and Alverton and no one can forget that awful sight. Jonjo was genuinely heart broken but when your involved in racing you just have to get over it and get on with it or your sunk.
No matter how hurt Jonjo was it hasn’t stopped him trying to win the race ever since or sending good horses like Don’t Push It to try his hand this year.
Harry Findlay may not be everyone’s cup of tea but he understands the game and like anyone, no matter how rich or poor you are, he has hopes and dreams.
If it’s his dream to win the National then good on him.
I couldn’t think of a better horse to go to war with. Denman is as bold as they come, he’s won 2 Hennessy’s by galloping the opposition into the ground and there’s no better race in the world than the National for doing that.
He’d be much better running there than trying to win another Gold Cup, a race he simply doesn’t have the pace for. For me he’s in more danger of coming a cropper in that the way he finishes so tired as he has in the National.
He reminds me of Crisp with one big difference. He doesn’t have Richard Pitman to carry round he’ll have the great Ruby Walsh on board and the thought of them winning brings out the goospimples.
Without a shadow of doubt I say: Go for it Harry!
He’d be much better running there than trying to win another Gold Cup, a race he simply doesn’t have the pace for. For me he’s in more danger of coming a cropper in that the way he finishes so tired as he has in the National.
He reminds me of Crisp with one big difference. He doesn’t have Richard Pitman to carry round he’ll have the great Ruby Walsh on board and the thought of them winning brings out the goospimples.
You say that but only Imperial Commander was superior to him this year, think the plan at this stage is to run in both the Gold Cup & National.
Would like to think AP would be aboard for a possible swansong in the National as Kauto is only a 5/1 shot for The Gold Cup so is Ruby’s likely ride there, can’t see them taking AP off Denman if he’s been riding him all year including the Gold Cup.
Anyway there’s a lot of water to go under the bridge before then.I’ve thought for some time that Denman needs at least 3 ¼ miles, and his Gold Cup performance appeared to confirm that. He clearly couldn’t quicken when Imperial Commander went past him, and this combined with his age surely means he won’t win another Gold Cup.
With that in mind, there aren’t an awful lot of targets for him to go for next season, but the one that jumps off the page is the National. If ever there’s a horse that’s built for the job, it’s him. People may still crab about his jumping, but I don’t recall too many errors at Cheltenham. I still think he’s one of the best jumpers of a fence I’ve seen, notwithstanding his fall at Aintree last season (when he appeared to be tired from his exertions in the Gold Cup), and his uncharacteristic mishap at Newbury.
If I were Paul Nicholls, I’d forget the Gold Cup and give Denman a light campaign next season, starting with another tilt at the Hennessey, then using a race like the Aon as a warm-up for the National. And then, win or lose, he should definitely be retired; he obviously wouldn’t be getting any better, would find it hard to win any race thereafter, and anyway would have nothing left to prove.
As far as carrying top weight over 4 ½ miles, the character of the race has changed subtly over recent years, with better class horses now being more to the fore, and very few horses out of the handicap. If Denman were to run, his mark would be that high that this would not be the case, thus changing the complexion of the race to a relatively uncompetitive, ‘old-fashioned’ National where half the field would carry more than their proper handicap mark and thus could probably be discounted immediately.
I’ve loved Denman from his novice hurdle days; I’ve always thought he’d be an ideal National horse and would love to see him be given the chance to prove it. Two provisos, though: (1) the ground is no worse than good to soft, (2) he doesn’t run in the Gold Cup, so I was a little dismayed that Nicholls said he wanted to run Denman in next year’s renewal. Let’s hope he comes to his senses before then and (assuming the horse is still fit and well next season) realize that the Tank will be far better suited to the National than the Gold Cup at that stage of his career.
I can’t think of a horse by Presenting that has truely relished the National trip (and many have tried).
He’d be an eleven year old running off a probable mark in the mid to high 170’s who gives his all and often finishes out on his legs in races a mile and 2 shorter and who has on numerous occasions made bad jumping mistakes when tiring….not for me ta.
Agree, would have absolutely no chance in the National.
If we all knew what was going to happen there would be little point in having the races
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