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If Denman, a 17 1/2 hands top class chaser who stays 3 1/4 miles really well, is not a suitable horse to run in a Grand National, then what kind of horse is?
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If Denman, a 17 1/2 hands top class chaser who stays 3 1/4 miles really well, is not a suitable horse to run in a Grand National, then what kind of horse is?
Yeh physically he’s worthy of running in the National but how many Grand National winners have been over 180 rated? won 71% of their races, placed 90% in their races? come into a national with four Group 1 wins? come into a national alredy a cult hero (bar redrum)? how many have won carrying over 11-5? how many have won over £1 million in prize money or the equivilant in their era?
Too unique of a horse to be running in such a chancers race, his style of jumping is going to be his worst enemy around the 4 mile mark which could be fatal.
Too unique of a horse to be running in such a chancers race, his style of jumping is going to be his worst enemy around the 4 mile mark which could be fatal.
Not many fences left to go around the 4-mile mark – unless you are boldly predicting he will fall at the last.
Phil Smith will doubtless give him a big chance, he has already proven that he is capable of carrying big weights – looks the perfect type for the race.
It’ll be fantastic to see Denman line up and would add to the already considerable interest. Good on them for being bold.
There has to be a strong chance Smith would wet himself were Denman to win the National off top-weight. He’s exactly the type of horse he wants to win the race, as as Smithy says he’d put him in off a most inviting weight.
We slag the flat owners off for retiring their horses too early before they have the potential to earn legendary status because they fear losing them to an accident etc, but now a jumps owner wants to run his well-suited horse in the world’s most famous race and give him that shot at legend status…he gets slagged off!?! Makes no sense to me. This isn’t some bad jumping, injury prone Champion Chaser. Run him!
I personally hope he doesnt run. He is not the horse he was and I would fear for his safety. Top weight at 11 years of age is a monumental task
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We slag the flat owners off for retiring their horses too early before they have the potential to earn legendary status because they fear losing them to an accident etc
I don’t know anyone who slags of flat owners that retire good horses, they are professionals and do it in the best interest in order to keep our flat game as healthy as possibly. Would you sit here now and look forward to New Approach and Duke of Marmalade entering their 2010 campaign aiming for a King George or would you like to see over 150 little babies each preparing for their racing life?
I know what I’d rather want.
but now a jumps owner wants to run his well-suited horse in the world’s most famous race and give him that shot at legend status…he gets slagged off!?! Makes no sense to me. This isn’t some bad jumping, injury prone Champion Chaser. Run him!
The race is only famous not for the quallity of horse but the fact its anyones race and the public like to get involved.
He’s well suited yet hasnt he already fallen at Aintree over 3M?
With due respect, Denman is already considered a legend and winning a Grand National wont tell us anything else that we don’t know about the horse.
No one is slagging the owners off, they can do what they want with their horses but this is a forum for opinions and like you’ve expressed yours I have expressed he shouldn’t run.
There are some who view Crisp’s mighty effort against Red Rum as epic and heroic. I see it as a heartbreaking and unnecessary.
There are way too many touchy feely types on these Forums. Imagine the fuss that would have been made over a horse like L’Escargot if the internet had been around then.
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No need to run/risk your horse in this Findlay, he owes you nothing.
But I’m sure you will
Much prefer if this horse was in Barbers sole ownership
Why is there ‘no need to run’ the horse in this race?
Denman seems an ideal candidate, it’s arguably the most famous race in the world, the one every owner/trainer/jockey would like to win so I honestly do not see what the fuss is about.
If Denman, a 17 1/2 hands top class chaser who stays 3 1/4 miles really well, is not a suitable horse to run in a Grand National, then what kind of horse is?
Yeh physically he’s worthy of running in the National but
how many Grand National winners have been over 180 rated?
won 71% of their races, placed 90% in their races? come into a national with four Group 1 wins? come into a national alredy a cult hero (bar redrum)?
how many have won carrying over 11-5?
how many have won over £1 million in prize money or the equivilant in their era?
Too unique of a horse to be running in such a chancers race, his style of jumping is going to be his worst enemy around the 4 mile mark which could be fatal.
Why shouldn’t a horse rated over 180 win? No horse rated that high has run in the race, so no horse rated over 180 could win the race. Can’t see your point.
How many have won carrying 11-5? None recently, but do you know how many horses carrying 11-5 or more have run in the National. There’s often been one horse running with 11-5 or more against 39 carrying less. 1 against 39, 2 against 78 etc; yet you expect that weight range to win as often as those below 11-5?
I’ve done my own research using 11-0 and more.
Since Corbiere’s year there’s been 933 runners of which only 151 (16.18% of the field) carried 11-0 or more. Where as 782 carried less than 11-0 (83.82% of the field).22 of 151 carrying 11-0 or more were placed in the first 4 (14.57%).
74 of 782 carrying less than 11-0 were placed (only 9.46%) 74 of the 96 places.
So despite the trends boys claiming the 10 stone bracket do best, in reality the 11-0 + horses have a better chance of being placed.
Therefore any bias towards the lower weight range in the winners is probably a coincidence.
Value Is Everything- Total Posts 17716
Personally, and this is just my view but I feel that its a matter of risk versus return.
For me if I was an owner the risk to my horse would outweight the return and therefore I would consider there is no need to run.
I admit there are risks involved in every race but the risk to a horse in the National is too much for me to risk.
That is why I consider there is no need to run
We slag the flat owners off for retiring their horses too early before they have the potential to earn legendary status because they fear losing them to an accident etc, but now a jumps owner wants to run his well-suited horse in the world’s most famous race and give him that shot at legend status…he gets slagged off!?! Makes no sense to me. This isn’t some bad jumping, injury prone Champion Chaser. Run him!
This thread is not about slagging Harry Findley or Paul Barber off, they are Denmans owners and at the end of the day it is their decision to make, but owners don’t always make the right decisions.
In my opinion Denman has already reached legendary status, he may only have won one Gold Cup but his win in 2008 was spectacular and awe inspiring and he’ll never be forgotten, he has nothing to prove. It’s not like his career has been aimed in the long term towards being a National horse anyway, as far as i’m aware. To me it looks like a last ditch attempt at glory for a horse who is looking like he may never win another Gold Cup again. Although he put up a fantastic heart warming performance on Friday, it does to me look as though his ability is starting to tail off slightly, whether that’s because of age, his health or his heart not being in it any more i’m not sure, but i feel entering him in the National in this frame of mind and at this later stage of his career would be a bad idea.
For all i know Denman may well get round Aintree safe and sound, however, if something did happen to him it would be a very high price to pay and an extremely sad end to a horse who has given his all to his owners, trainer, jockeys and fans alike.
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Personally I would feel better knowing Denman could retire safe and sound rather than taking the risk that goes with the National.
I dont actually like the National but of course I recognise the appeal of it…
I would rather sacrafice the glory of winning the race safe in the knowledge my horse can retire in full health…
By the way I dare say Findlay is looking at the prize fund of the National rather than the glory…
And if he is Joncol there is nothing wrong with that at all. It’s not an amateur sport and I’d be tempted by a massive prize for what is, effectively, a staying handicap chase.
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I dont like Findlay,
I dont think he really cares about the wellbeing of his horses at the end of the day.
Take Desert Quest for example
He wins the county hurdle 2006.
Upon winning at Ascot in October of 2006 Findlay describes him as the most exciting and quickest hurdler since Istabraq.
The horse clearly starts to decline in early 2007 so Findlay gets rid of him. One year later the horse is dead.
Now this is a horse who won Mr Findlay over £145,000 in hurdle prize money. If a horse won me that sort of money I would feel obliged to retire him in good health and look after him.
But who am I to comment on how Mr Findlay looks after his horses…
By the way Ouninpohja is also dead although The Racing Post have not updated his status….
Just feel Findlay is more interested in the prize that goes with the National race rather than the glory…
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