- This topic has 204 replies, 63 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 2 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Denman being Denman must have thought **** this i"ll just plough straight through it!AP got his timing way wrong! We all make mistakes,some folk just dont like admitting it!
I can’t get the thought out of my head that Denman was thinking, ‘think you’re gonna have an easy day on the back of me do yer? Well try this on for size.’
Let’s face it. McCoy is not going to be taken of Denman. I, like many others, could not understand why Thomas was not given the ride however thats the way racing is. Harry enjoys the thousands of words being written and the controversy it has created but I always thought that Mr Barber would have stayed loyal to Thomas. Although Thomas has now left the Nicolls yard he has twice been called upon to ride What Friend and rode perfect races each time. He has, I understand, been booked to ride Tricky Trickster in the Gold Cup and that looks a very interesting ride now over the siff three and a quarter mile trip.
Thomas is now stable jockey to Tom George an up and coming stable that will soon be hitting top form and has a couple of good horses with excellent chances at Cheltenham.
Nicholls yard was good to and for him and he will have no complaints about not riding Denman. For himDenman is now history.Just please someone explain to me exactly what AP did that caused Denman to walk through the fence?
What he did was basically lose control of the horse,the pair of them barely had time to recover from the mistake at the 4th last before AP was chucking the coals on again,he was that busy playing catch up you would have thought from his riding style,there wasn"t a 3rd last fence there at all,he never gave the horse a chance to find its stride and Denman being Denman must have thought **** this i"ll just plough straight through it!AP got his timing way wrong! We all make mistakes,some folk just dont like admitting it!
Absolutely spot on TAPK.Should have just popped the next and see how he was going. Typical McCoy.
Yes, i agree. Sam Thomas is the right horse for Denman as he knows how to ride him. AP rides differently and I don’t think he is the horse for him.
Im no fan of Mccoy but I dont blame him for saturdays race.The horse looked tired in my opinion.Denman is a classy horse but lacks consistency.
Im no fan of Mccoy but I dont blame him for saturdays race.The horse looked tired in my opinion.Denman is a classy horse but lacks consistency.
Get it right "Dangerous" there"s nothing wrong with the horse,its the Trainer that lacks consistency! You follow?
Looking back on the race, i actually thought Denman was keen and did jump very well throughout the most part. It wasn’t til the 4th or 5th last when he looked in trouble. However you could tell coming to the fence in which he made his first mistake that he was looking tired and didn’t want to jump it. Hopefully rthe race won’t have taken too much out of him
HOW IRONIC
McCoy had one winner yesterday, the horses name?
TANKS FOR THAT ….you couldn’t make it up!Interesting how we all interpret things differently. I’ve watched the race several times now and am amazed that so many people think Denman was in trouble or a beaten horse when he made the mistake four out.
To my eyes, he was still travelling very well in himself – certainly best of all those in the race.
If McCoy was starting to niggle at him that shouldn’t be a major cause for concern; it’s not as though he’s a bridle horse is it? Quite the opposite in fact as he finds a lot for pressure. And if he were under pressure, it certainly wasn’t maximum nor had it been for anything more than a few strides before the mistake.
To my eyes he just lost concentration, made the mistake, and then took time to regain momentum before going out at the third last.
His jumping is a concern yes, but I don’t think his overall wellbeing should be. Provided his trainer can sort out his concentration/jumping I’m sure he’ll get to Cheltenham much closer to his best of 2008 than he did 12 months ago.
McCoy is your everyday,journeyman, allporpose jockey;why there must be a dozen of them out there. He is in no way suitable to be riding a Gold Cup favorite. He is still learning his trade. If he ever got to a first class yard he could rise to the top.Otherwise he is doomed to obscurity.He must learn to curb his enthusiasm when riding. He needs a good trainer to help him learn his trade.McManus must see something in him that is not apparent to the expert eye.But then again he is more of a gambler than a judge of jockeys.
- Total Posts 17716
I’ve watched the Aon and a few other Denman races numerous times over the last week. This has led me to a number of conclusions which some of you obviously disagree with. So be it.
I can’t see how anyone would think that Denman was travelling particularly well at the point where he made his first mistake. McCoy was continually looking back in the style of a jockey sitting on an empty tank of gas. He tried to slip the field and had to work to get Denman to leap the one prior to the mistake. The horse’s head carriage had lowered and his ears weren’t pricked like a horse full of gas ( see early jumps on first lap ).
Niche Market had closed him down to a length
at the point of the first mistake after Denman had gained a four length gap on the field.
The rider on Niche Market took a cheeky look back himself before the 4th last fence. He must have fancied himself at that point. I think he could tell the leader was in trouble.
As for impatient riding etc – spare me the fairytales. Both first and second were involved in the leader stroll over the first lap. Nothing was going too fast so the inside animal was getting the easiest run. The eventual winner was widest of all and covered the most ground. Denman was travelling very well within himself until the pace quickened. It’s not like he’s been a career long hold up horse or that those tactics would have been ideal in the circumstances of the race. He’s a roll on from mid race type who wears opponents into the ground. That’s exactly what McCoy tried to do.
At the point when the pace picked up and Denman rolled forward he never travelled comfortably for mine. McCoy was concerned. I’m not surprised. He couldn’t outpace a Grand National horse. Once the first error was made it was all over. There would have been no comeback under any circumstanes.
Suggesting McCoy should gather the horse up more quietly and pop the third last is ignoring the facts. McCoy had to "stoke the coals" to some extent to get Denman balanced and back on stride simply to make any attempt at the third last. You can’t just drop your hands, ride quietly and expect those actions to send the right message to an animal like Denman. Anyone suggesting McCoy asked Denman for anything special at the third last is kidding themselves but wont fool me. The horse simply put down and repeated the error of the 4th last in the style of a tired animal. At 90% fit Denman should have faced no problems with either obstacle.
The efforts of Denman at the penultimate and last jump minus his rider were pretty poor in themselves. They were tired efforts. He looks a spent force more so than Kauto did before he raised his game last year. Not too many wanted to be on him for the Gold Cup after the Betfair Chase. Nichols has a lot less time to work his magic on Denman than he did with Kauto.
Denman made a few mistakes the last time he went round in the Aon. They obviously weren’t Sam’s fault though because the horse won.
People expect jockeys to put their hand up and admit to mistakes even when they don’t make them. It’s a shame horses cannot talk and clear the air with some honest comment themselves. I guess the grandstand riders would have to explore another angle for ridicule then. PS
Anyone suggesting that McCoy is somehow a serious risk to the wellbeing of Denman is a ( expletive not required ) idiot.I agree with most of that,Chiswickian.
McCoy did little wrong,the horse just wasn’t himself,for wahtever reason,and paid the penalty.
It’s too easy,and lazy to blame AP.
Let’s wait and see what happens when it really matters.
Then,we may get a better idea.- Total Posts 17716
Chiswickian
Are you seriously suggesting that Denman would have met exactly the same fate if AP had given him time to get balanced and approach the fence more carefully.
Imo, it’s not really a question of McCoy’s overall ability, or Denman’s fitness, or how the horse travelled through the rest of the race, but simply – would another jockey have got the horse over the next fence, and still been in contention?
For all AP’s experience and his thousands of winners, he didn’t, yet I can think of plenty who probably would have.- Total Posts 17716
You think the horse was actually still in contention after the first mistake and I don’t.
yet I can think of plenty who probably would have
Rubbish! An emotional response you cannot possibly ever prove. Would have, should have, could have ……. we know where those thoughts lead.
Yes he would have met the same fate – He would have lost the race. Did you want McCoy to pull the horse up and give it a breather to get the horse set for the next fence? Exactly how do you get a horse over a fence with no forward momentum?
We see things very differently. I simply looked at the raw footage and took it on face view not a hypothetical or emotional one. You seem to have interpreted events in an emotional manner. End of story.
Chiswickian
Are you seriously suggesting that Denman would have met exactly the same fate if AP had given him time to get balanced and approach the fence more carefully.
Imo, it’s not really a question of McCoy’s overall ability, or Denman’s fitness, or how the horse travelled through the rest of the race, but simply – would another jockey have got the horse over the next fence, and still been in contention?
For all AP’s experience and his thousands of winners, he didn’t, yet I can think of plenty who probably would have.Denman was a beaten horse before three-out, reet – and arguably before four out. Change the jockey a thousand times, and it would make no difference – he was miles short of his best, for whatever reason.
- Total Posts 17716
Grassy
I’m not suggesting he would have won the race – I doubt it was of much importance anyway, in the greater scheme of things – what I am saying is what I saw with my own eyes, that the horse was asked back into the race too soon. Nothing will convince me that such as Ruby or Timmy Murphy (or maybe even Sam Thomas
) would have shown quite the same, err…..enthusiasm to get him competitive again so quickly.Chiswickian
Considering you’ve written half a page of unconnected drivel about the incident, and got aerated enough to slag anyone off who disagrees with you, you’re hardly qualified to be throwing words like ‘rubbish’ and ’emotional’ about now, are you?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.