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Why does he need a pacemaker when he has shown he’s fully capable of making the running himself? It’s only ‘the hard way’ when they go too quick.
Excellent statement imo DJ
I’m also in the DJ camp. My thought on reading the initial thread was "why?". Besides which, you’d have to find one hell of a relentless galloper to set a pace for Denman!!!!!
I am afraid if he sits in behind more than likely you get last year’s farce again. He may not be good enough anyway but he will not win sitting off a slow pace and if he is forced to make his own pace how many Gold Cup winners make all?
This horse gallops for fun. I firmly believe that Denman can take it up from as far out as he likes, set a searching gallop that just has the rest of the field stretched slightly, then crank up the pace again a few fences out, thus firmly putting everything to the sword.
I really can’t see that he will sit on a slow pace, jockey instructions will almost certainly be to go out and make it if they are dawdling, IMO.
At the moment I think Denman can, and will, win the big one.
Maybe Paul Barber and Harry Findlay could buy Kauto Star as a pacemaker for Denman ?
Only a thought.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
With it looking like there will be nothing to take Denman on it says to me that there is absolutely no need in having a pacemaker. Denman will probably get it all his own way up front, and surely these are ideal conditions to get the best performance from a front-runner like Denman.
I am with Flash that if any of the Big 3 would appreciate a pacemaker it would be Exotic Dancer. A really stiff test of stamina would give him the ideal opportunity to finally get past KS at the business end.
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This horse gallops for fun. I firmly believe that Denman can take it up from as far out as he likes, set a searching gallop that just has the rest of the field stretched slightly, then crank up the pace again a few fences out, thus firmly putting everything to the sword.
He would, if he were the 2nd coming that many seem to think he is?
However, the form book tells a different story. From his Sun Alliance hurdle run:“chased leaders, stumbled after 6th, hit 3 out, slight lead 2 out, soon hard ridden, headed soon after last, stayed on same pace”
Okay, it’s over fences and over further, but it also against much better and much more experienced horses, and I wouldn’t bet on him not running a very similar race.
The more I look at the Lexus the more I agree with you Reet….I don’t think there will be many beat him in the Gold Cup but I just feel he isn’t good enough to win it……3 moderate by GC standard horses were right up his backside in the Lexus and it is definitely not Gold Cup form…Ruby gave him a couple of dull ones in the Lexus and he never exactly flew for him…for me Ruby was checking out the opposition or would have just ridden him out hands and heels……..I don’t think Ruby will be rushing to jump off Kauto after that performance and I am pretty sure he knows Denman is not anywhere near the threat people think he is.
I think he will stretch a lot of horses in the race but I can’t see him taking Kauto off the bridle.
Most people will be thinking Kauto Denman Exotic Dancer but it never works out like that.
I suppose Denman could finish second as he will be running on when others have cried enough……..ED I’m not so sure about but Turpin Green who was still cantering 2 out last year may be the horse that could run on better than anything near the end if he has improved. His run the other day was nuts and he was tailed off at one point but he’ll be bang on for Gold Cup day and I think well worth a saver and maybe even one for forecast tickle. He will relish a strong pace better than most IMO.
What a festival – what a race!
I can’t believe some are saying it was a disappointing race (is that because they didn’t back the winner).
Denman was outstanding and ran his rivals ragged and deserves massive credit.
People like Fist will either be out of business or somehow, they will have managed to stick £100k on Denman at the last minute – to be honest, I’m sick of the after timing on here and won’t be tuning in to TRF that often now.
Yet even more annoying than the after-timers is people saying that the race was a disappointment – WHY? Why was it a poor race, why was it a let down etc?
Sorry for being a bit drunk and a bit harsh – it’s not often that you put up the winners of the CH and GC weeks in advance and get a lot of stick for your selections, but thankfully I’ve been justified in sticking by Katchit and Denman. But for those who want to knock those races simply because you weren’t on the wnnier – well perhaps getting rid of the sour grapes might be advisable.
Sorry for being drunk and speaking my mind – I’m off out now to celebrate a great double.
Mike
Anyone that can’t see that Denman is a monster shouldn’t be backing horses to be honest. After that performance today there can be absolutely no doubt.
He’ll be vulnerable in the top grade at places like Kempton / Aintree over three miles but at somewhere like Cheltenham he’s going to be mightily difficult to beat by anything.
Agreed, MM.
As I’ve said before, in racing, most people talk through their wallets, many with their hearts, very few with their brain.
I was adamant that Kauto Star would win. I was wrong, he was beaten by a better horse on the day. However, I love horses and love this sport. I have faith in my ability to analyse racing without my observations being influenced by money. Some people get over excited after they back a horse and it wins ie Master Minded being considered by many as a great after one impressive victory, and some are too bitter to see sense if their horse loses.
Don’t allow my final paragraph to turn this thread into something it isn’t, my apologies.
Superlatives for Denman, please.
Agreed, MM.
As I’ve said before, in racing, most people talk through their wallets, many with their hearts, very few with their brain.
I was adamant that Kauto Star would win. I was wrong, he was beaten by a better horse on the day. However, I love horses and love this sport. I have faith in my ability to analyse racing without my observations being influenced by money. Some people get over excited after they back a horse and it wins ie Master Minded being considered by many as a great after one impressive victory, and some are too bitter to see sense if their horse loses.
Don’t allow my final paragraph to turn this thread into something it isn’t, my apologies.
Superlatives for Denman, please.
Something I’ve thought for a long time – Horse Racing in particular, opinions are usually formed whether a horse wins or not and whether the person backed it – hence some of the ‘strange’ opinions that are voiced.
As regards Denman – I wouldn’t call him a great – yet. It was a very good, very impressive performance. At the time I did wonder by the proximity of Neptunes Collonges, maybe he has improved.What a festival – what a race!
I can’t believe some are saying it was a disappointing race (is that because they didn’t back the winner).
Denman was outstanding and ran his rivals ragged and deserves massive credit.
People like Fist will either be out of business or somehow, they will have managed to stick £100k on Denman at the last minute – to be honest, I’m sick of the after timing on here and won’t be tuning in to TRF that often now.
Yet even more annoying than the after-timers is people saying that the race was a disappointment – WHY? Why was it a poor race, why was it a let down etc?
Sorry for being a bit drunk and a bit harsh – it’s not often that you put up the winners of the CH and GC weeks in advance and get a lot of stick for your selections, but thankfully I’ve been justified in sticking by Katchit and Denman. But for those who want to knock those races simply because you weren’t on the wnnier – well perhaps getting rid of the sour grapes might be advisable.
Sorry for being drunk and speaking my mind – I’m off out now to celebrate a great double.
Mike
Wht the fook are you brining me into the equation. I backed Kauto star in 2 single and a double last year and have never once said anything different. Yes it was my main bet of the season but not my biggest. When he won the King George my bet was covered totally so I lost nothing. if he had one today I would have scooped 6 figures……..big deal he lost but you don’t see me running and hiding or even winging about it.
I would find the post and shove it in your face If I could be arsed.
My single largest bets were Binocular at Ascot who I had been raving about for weeks and stated I was going to hammer him if I got 1/1 at Ascot I got 10/11 and when he won the same week I said on here I had put every penny on Master Minded……….Every bet I had at the festival was posted on here months ago and on Tuesday I had a field day………with a couple of minor glitches………on Thursday Master Minded done the buisness and gave me my best Cheltenham ever without Kauto winning.
Today I never had a bet I watched the race and enjoyed it. I come on here and the first thing I see is you slagging me.
Have you ever asked youself why people post bets and prices on here they have taken ?
No matter who it is and especially with new memeber. If they mention they had a bet and took a price after a race they are jumped upun from agreat height by all the clowns that cant wait to have a go……around here you don’t get the befefit of the doubt so I thought stuff this……and cover my as so you and people like you can”t get at me.
You actually PM’d me and warned me about people on here who think they own the place when I left because I was sick to the teeth of people who do nothing else but write one lines nasties.
When you sober up go post hunting and you’ll find bets Like Katchit 12/1 Tidal wave 12/1 Noland 16/1 ew Binocular ew and Khalahari King ew .
with bets like that mate you won’t be putting me out of business for along time.
Incidentally I enjoy race reading a lot more than I do gambling……that’s whee the real fun is. I got Katchit/Sublimity near enough bang on and The QMCC thread absolutely spot on…..Denman V kauto I got wrong……but sht happens………thats where the real fun is in the game and the real pleasure is……….I would rather be reading there posts than talking abou this crap………wierdest bunch of racing people I have ever come across………..you can talk about horses and racing but don’t ever say you bet a horse…………….DUH!!!
Anyway not to worry I won’t be having any more than 5 bets between now and the end of the season………one will definately be after timing excet to one person on here…….the rest I will post as usual…….hope your head is pounding in the morning after timer
Fist,
I’m not slagging you – I’m just pointing out that you seem to have backed every wiinner after the event.
Let me remind you that you were all over Binocular for the Triumph – you said you had backed him for a lot of money and stood to win fortunes etc. You also agreed that he wouldn’t be turning up in the Supreme Novices.
Yet when he was confirmed as a Supreme Novices runner (about 48 hours before the race) you suddenly seem to have backed him massively ante-post
– you didn’t even know he was running in the Supreme for crying out loud – so how have you backed him to win thousands ante-post?I’m not questioning your bets and don’t care how much you have won/lost, and me and you get on quite well and talk frequently via PM – however, that won’t stop me saying what I think and that I think you make a few bets up after the race. Sorry if I’m wrong – no personal offence intended.
Mike
So Micky you are accusing others of rubbishing Denmans performance because they did not back it.
Well, could it be you have the opposite view because you backed it and are sozzled. Everything looks so much better or worse when you’ve had a few.
I did not back either horse but if I did it would not stop me giving a reasoned opinion.
The reason people (including myself) are a little disappointed, is because both horses did not run to form (imo).
Once you have sobered up take another look at those posts, they are not as bad as you make out.
To everyone else,
Think we should not take Mickys rantings too personally until he is not under the influence of alcohol.Hope you reconsider not logging in as much Micky, as I enjoy reading your posts even when we disagree.
Ginge
Value Is EverythingMy bet was a smaller one e/w on Halcon Genelardais today, so had no real bias and when watching the race I didn’t think they looked to be going that fast and when the two stayers knowhere and Halcon started back pedalling when the tempo was raised, I was certain that the pace was a slow one. Which initially made me think kauto has run below form.
However, I have since looked at the time etc and it was not only the fastest race of the day but it was the 2nd fastest of the festival after master mindeds yesterday. I will eat my words as to it being an anticlimax, it actually looks rock solid. I am in agreement with flash that Denman has won the race fair and square and unless on better ground kauto will struggle to get on terms with denman next time.
I think many people, myself included have underestimated the conditions at cheltenham this week, and have underestimated denman aswell.
He truly is the tougher of the two at this distance and I think he can make this distance his own in the future, ground permitting.
Am still undecided about katchit though, I didnt have any serious bet in that race either, and indeed I’ve got katchit in my ttf, and had never voiced an opinion on him pre-race. I just found that so many of the major players failing to run to form and no wide margin win, it is a very hard race to assess in terms of form strength for me personally.
Think a few have taken words out of context.
It was disappointing Kauto did not run to form, and I would still rate Kauto Star 2 or 3 lbs above Denman. But the actual performance was better than most Gold Cups of the last 10 years. Better than Kauto Stars and possibly Best Mates as well.
Anyone got a spare 2 million quid?
What if Harry Findlay, Paul Barber and Clive Smith were offered 2 million quid, winner take all. For Master Minded, Kauto Star and Denman to meet in a 2m4f race at Ascot or wherever next season. I am sure if the trainer gets half, Paul Nicholls could persuade the owners.
Go on lads, you know you want to.
Ginge
Value Is Everything
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