- This topic has 50 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 7 months ago by
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- Total Posts 17716
I feel I should point out that it’s £185, not £285, and that with the "loyalty" discount it’s usally less than £185.
Also, there are about 12,000 members, not 20,000.
Thank you Roseblossom for pointing out the fake "financials" which the knockers have been touting. They also fail to take into account such minor matters as weekly, high quality newsletter editorial work, production and postage, web mastering and coding, advertisement and race sponsorship. Their "financials" are in fact skewed, prejudiced nonsense.
- Total Posts 17716
As you admit to being emotionally involved, Pinza, it could be argued that you lack objectivity and are therefore unable to present a fair and balanced opinion.
Of course, you could have accepted – as I have done – that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that just wouldn’t do would it? Better to sign off with accusations of prejudice because someone has had the audacity to disagree with you and hope that your narrow-minded remarks lead to an exchange throughout which you can exercise your self-instilled sense of superiority.
Should I bend to your will now, or can I think for myself just a little while longer?
How gracious you are.
One member may have misquoted Elite Racing Club’s annual subscription fee, but to suggest that that figure is "fake" is rather damning of someone who may have – and I know it sounds unlikely – made a mistake. Some might actually call that "skewed and prejudiced", given your aversion and obvious distaste for their (informed) opinion, but not everyone would be so presumptuous.
Just out of interest, how would you appraise Elite Racing Club’s expenditure? You’ve said, with some vigour, that ‘they’ failed to take account of editorial work, production and postage, web mastering and coding, advertisement and race sponsorship, so how much does that cost? Do you have any idea, no matter how vague? Putting the fact that no-one has referred to such costs either explicitly or implicitly aside, I’ve worked as an accountant and as a graphic designer and therefore believe myself to be adequately qualified to analyse such expenses. I’ve done the accounts of independent bookmakers, greyhound trainers and stables; have designed websites, advertising material and produced editorial content; I’ve even contributed to a local, full-colour monthly publication and overseen its printing and distribution.
Sometimes, just sometimes, those who disagree do know what they’re talking about, making their opinions equally (a far more ghastly word in this case I’m sure) valid.
If you don’t agree that’s your prerogative, but remember that yours isn’t the only valid opinion.
A positive opinion from somebody who is emotionally involved, as Roseblossom is, and as other Elite members are, has to be considered much more "valid" (ghastly word!) than a negative opinion from somebody who isn’t. End of.
Thank You for pointing out the membership fee RB, something I’d misread.
If I’d paid for membership of a racing club I’d want a great deal more than a newsletter every few weeks and seeing the clubs management enjoy a jolly up to Ascot, Japan etc.
Each to their own mind – surely a better investment given the financials detailed elsewhere and you’d still feel the emotion would be to attempt to purchase shares in Tony Hill’s holding companies?
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If I’d paid for membership of a racing club I’d want a great deal more than a newsletter every few weeks and seeing the clubs management enjoy a jolly up to Ascot, Japan etc.
Each to their own mind – surely a better investment given the financials detailed elsewhere and you’d still feel the emotion would be to attempt to purchase shares in Tony Hill’s holding companies?
Each to his own indeed,
Irish Stamp
, and frankly I wouldn’t want everyone on the planet to be a member!
A brace of points: the newsletter is weekly, but "newsletter" gives a false idea of the magazine’s scale and production values. Aside from the weekly reports from every trainer on every horse in training, plus reports from the studs/farms on broodmares, foals, yearlings and recovering "invalids" (with plenty of graphic content) Elite Members get details of potential entries, special features, full race reports as well as more general articles, editorials – and the all-important letters forum. There is involvement in naming the horses, and on strategy (for example, opinion on the career length and possible sale of Soviet Song was actively canvassed.)
There is no more – in fact less – sense of "jolly" from Matthew Budden at the races than Highclere get from Harry Herbert. He and the other members of the management team do everything they can to put the Elite members at the centre of the paddock/prize acceptance experience. So do the trainers.
How could passive money making by financial involvement in the holding companies enrich life more than this? If you could have seen the supportive, consoling camaraderie between James Given and club members after the Leger – with club members, not the management, and certainly not Mr Hill – I think you would have understood something more about Elite membership.
The gap that
Pompete
has pointed out between price and value was, for me, on the money here. The communal joy at success is different from "this horse is
mine!
" but equally potent. And until
Armchair
, who doth protest too much (as Hamlet said of the Lady), can come up with actual financial figures, his prejudice is not worth a hill of beans (or a bean of Hill’s.)
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I’ve been a big fan of Dandino all year even though I didn’t have to pay £185 for the privilege. My only concern with a trip to Japan is the long term welfare of Dandino. I have a right to express that concern. I don’t believe a trip to Japan can benefit the horse in any way. End of.
That said best of luck and I hope he returns home safely.
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I don’t believe a trip to Japan can benefit the horse in any way. End of.
That said best of luck and I hope he returns home safely.
Amen to that!
Racing a horse is surely always a judgement call, but "benefit" has to include the owners too. This means balancing welfare risk against thrill for owners (and in this case the carrot of huge financial gain, large enough to make a real windfall for every single member of the club.)
If not benefiting the horse were the sole criterion, nothing would ever run in (for example) the Grand National, would it?
I adore horses & have always got emotionally involved with usually the lesser lights hence my monicker & I had a wonderful time being a QC ‘groupie’ along with Jeremy G.
I follow the Elite horses long after they’ve been sold on & am always concerned about their subsequent welfare.
Pinza said Tony Hill is a business man & a canny one at that & business men are in it for the profit. Elite has changed over the years. The Newsletter is published by his company & as well as the info relevant to Members re the horses contains adverts all leading back to TH businesses. e.g. Axom, Collecticus, a tipping line (Snippets) 60p p/m etc.
There were 20 + horses up until a couple of years ago, now it’s average 15 of which there are 4 (includes 2 poss Bumper horses) NH. With the addition of Marlinka & probably Affinity there will be 12 Broodmares although a couple of them will be ‘retiring’ soon. The NH fans are being overlooked at the moment imo.
Geographically the trainers/studs have a bias too. 3 in Wiltshire, 3 in Oxfordshire, 2 in Suffolk, 1 Surrey, 1 Hampshire, 1 in Yorkshire, 1 in Lincolnshire, & 1 in Shropshire.
Members write in to suggest new trainers & the bog standard reply is ‘thank you for suggesting a new trainer for the Club’ although no names are ever mentioned. I think they do exactly as they want to do.
Keeping Dandino was more luck than judgement as they didn’t think he’d be up to much & at one stage were going to sell him so I have a special affection for him.
As I said I love horses & enjoy following them, but I do realise that TH is a businessman & in a way we are subsidising his business.
I have no idea how many Members there are. Channel 4 said 20,000 to James Given on Leger day & he didn’t disagree, whereas ATR said 12,000. I’ll guess at a heck of a lot but always fluctuating!!- Total Posts 17716
QC, you make some good points.
Elite
has
changed since the "Bliss" days. The huge upsurge in membership during Soviet Song’s glory years led to the need to professionalise the organisation and streamline the business’s outgoings. Numbers declined again after 2006, but I understand that there was another surge during the build up to Dandino’s Leger attempt.
My own feeling that the precious, intimate "club" feeling which so many enjoy has survived the rise in membership with surprising resilience. Some of it may be carefully stage-managed, but loyalty and good communications remain the drivers for Elite’s continued health, despite their disappointingly lean years of 2007 and 2008.
The main change is the shift you’ve outlined between NH and Flat, alongside the strategic plan to go for "quality" over "quantity". The number of horses in training wavers between 15 and 20, and it’s clear that there’s no intention to boost it above that self-imposed limit.
Money is channelled instead into what most Elitists would reckon to be the jewel in the Club’s crown: the breeding programme, which has hugely expanded over the last five years, and which provides absorbing (and continual) interest to many.
In essence, Elite has moved from being a punter-friendly outfit, with runners evenly spread at low level throughout the year and under both codes, to a "purist"-friendly Club, where the emphasis is on trying to breed Flat Group winners.
That’s why Paul Cole, for example, felt that Eisteddfod (
may he enjoy his honourable retirement!
) could have won more money had he been kept handicapping: the Club’s choice was to go the Group route – as with Border Patrol, Marlinka and Dandino.
Thinking about it, I wonder if this shift away from "punter-friendly" is the reason for some of the dyspeptic attacks on the Club from regular TRF contributors. These attacks certainly centre on money, and what they perceive as a lack of fiscal value for members. The non-quantifiable values don’t seem to register strongly with them. But who knows?
Amazing how threads about Elite Racing Club always attract such polarised views. I’ve been a member for a few years now and my subscription this year was £112. I think its about the best value for money I get for anything over the year. But of course it’s not going to have the same appeal for everyone and I certainly wouldn’t expect it to appeal to some of the far more knowledgable members on the forum.
But it is what it is and to me being able to go and see and handle the club’s mares yearlings and foals, and watch and follow their development is worth more than the annual membership on its own.
And we share the ups and downs of racing, – this year Dandino and Marlinka as opposed to the New Approach foal, Kabayil and sending Soviet Song unsuccessfully to Ravens Pass.
I don’t see the issue about emotional attachment. I support and have an emotional attachment to Dunfermline at football (someones got to) and I pay a lot more to do that than I pay ERC over a year. It’s a hobby. Hobbies usually cost money. I get no dividend from the football club, but their players are "my" players.
As for the original point of the thread I think, to be fair, owners apply to be included in the race and are then invited. Personally I think it might be a step too far for Dandino, but who knows? Thats part of the enjoyment.He’s far exceeded expectations already, I’m happy to rely on James Given and Matthew Budden’s judgement.
I dont think ERC pretends to be anything it isn’t. At the end of the day it’s just a bit of fun.Quote Pinza:
The main change is the shift you’ve outlined between NH and Flat, alongside the strategic plan to go for "quality" over "quantity". The number of horses in training wavers between 15 and 20, and it’s clear that there’s no intention to boost it above that self-imposed limit.That is exactly what’s making so many Members unhappy. I much prefer NH racing & imo we are being short changed in that department. The strategy is 15 now not between 15 & 20.
With Ruling Party out for the season I hope against hope that the Management deem fit to buy another NH horse & we don’t have to rely on the All Weather in the Winter.
It is impossible to have all quality horses, breeding is a lottery anyway & I much preferred it when dear old Empire Park was strutting his stuff in Claimers. Also the jollies to the US for MB & Co to purchase ‘exciting’ new prospects have been a wash out. Viennese has never seen a racecourse, is to be sold because her pedigree isn’t considered good enough for the breeding programme so why buy her in the first place?
Regarding the Geography of the horses some of my friends live within a few miles of 5 or 6 establishments. For me to visit say Kirtlington stud it’s a 360 mile round trip, not a cheap trip is it? Henry Cecil’s 440 miles !! Where possible locations of horses should be spread about not concentrated in one main area.I’m fed up of trying to champion trainers with good reputations reasonably near to where I live as they just place horses with trainers which are convenient to them.
I have never yet seen an Elite rep when I have been present & we have had a runner, but they don’t tend to attend a wet Wednesday at Wolverhampton, or a rainy day at Bangor. Maybe they’ll give Japan a miss!!!
It will be very interesting when the Accounts are published.- Total Posts 17716
With Ruling Party out for the season I hope against hope that the Management deem fit to buy another NH horse & we don’t have to rely on the All Weather in the Winter.
It is impossible to have all quality horses, breeding is a lottery anyway & I much preferred it when dear old Empire Park was strutting his stuff in Claimers.I am sure that another NH horse will be bought in to replace Ruling Party for the season. Meanwhile, Ballycarney is proving to have rather more sterling quality under Emma Lavelle than seemed likely under Henrietta Knight!
As for claimers, you might see Harlech Castle in one at the weekend…
Quote Pinza:
I am sure that another NH horse will be bought in to replace Ruling Party for the season.That’ll be the Tiger Hill yearling colt then!!!
I adore horses & have always got emotionally involved with usually the lesser lights hence my monicker & I had a wonderful time being a QC ‘groupie’ along with Jeremy G.
Aye, splendid days they were, too. It’s the tenth anniversary of his 100th run next July, of course – frightening where the time’s gone!
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
I have been a member of Elite since the VERY early days – I think it was 1993. I joined the Club as it gives people like me who could never afford to buy a racehorse a chance to visit stables and studs and to get a better insight into racing. I saw horses like Soviet Song, Penzance and Dandino when they were a few months old and it gives a great thrill to follow their careers then their retirement. Elite gives updates when possible on all their ex horses and sponsors some into new careers after racing. After so many years as a member, I now receive a loyalty discount. I enjoy a small bet on the horses and only bet on what I know I can afford to lose!
Good luck to Dandino in Japan and if he does get any prize money it will be a bonus. The main thing is that he returns safe and sound after the race.Quote Pinza:
I am sure that another NH horse will be bought in to replace Ruling Party for the season.That’ll be the Tiger Hill yearling colt then!!!
Don’t.. it depresses the hell out of me.
Most Elite members I know are dyed in the wool NH and they are all in despair over the current situation. I don’t think members (12,500 according to the website) hollering for quality understand that that approach will just reduce the action. I fail to find the news that Peace Corps – bought to go hurdling – will have a wind op and ply his trade on the AW this winter exciting. He is a sweet horse I’m sure but he wasn’t bought to do that job and if he isn’t going jumping then move him on and replace him with one that is. As for Affinity being "too valuable"… give me strength.
Tell me about it!
A Tiger’s Hill yearling, I thought we already had one of them!! Hang on his dam is related to Sadler’s Wells !!Affinity should be sent hurdling for sure. It’s that Sadler’s Wells connection, breeds brilliant broodmares etc yawn etc.
This is starting to look like a Marju type obsession.
Surely Elite must realise the natives are getting restless.
I adore horses & have always got emotionally involved with usually the lesser lights hence my monicker & I had a wonderful time being a QC ‘groupie’ along with Jeremy G.
Aye, splendid days they were, too. It’s the tenth anniversary of his 100th run next July, of course – frightening where the time’s gone!
gc
Ah that wonderful sunny day, when the lemon suit I arrived in looked like a giant eccles cake in about 5 minutes flat owing to an invasion of tiny flies. You in your T Shirt with the web site emblazoned across your chest, oh how happy & excited we were, surrounded by paparazzi, mainly Japanese methinks.
QC did not let us down as we had no expectations, we came to admire his shining coat & beautifully plaited tail & mane, anything else was a bonus. You can’t buy what joy he brought to us champions of the underwoof.
Nearly ten years, gosh it’s time to start lying about my age then !!! Didn’t you mean five? !!
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