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The quality of racing journalism has really deteriorated. He says it a no brainer. No it wouldn’t be better if The Oaks was run tomorrow. The negatives far outweigh the positives. Does anyone agree with Dan? I think he says 90% of people would agree with him.
The problem this year is we have five Saturdays in May – most years we don’t.
Once we have the Lockinge, there would normally be two weeks to the Derby but this year there are three. We have the Temple/Sandy Lane which, along with the Irish Guineas meeting, makes for a busy weekend and then it would be straight on to Epsom (that’s why they moved the Sandown card from the Tuesday after the Bank Holiday to the Thursday so it created a launch pad for the Derby meeting).
This year, it doesn’t work because we have the extra Saturday and it’s a vacuum in truth.
Hill offers a solution to a problem which rarely exists – we can all cope with one quiet Saturday before the Derby.
Most years there are just over 2 weeks between the Dante meeting and The Derby, this year it was an ideal 3 weeks. Horses aren’t going to run in The Musidora just over a week before running in The Oaks most years.
I’d run The Derby the first Wednesday in June followed by The Oaks & Coronation Cup the following Saturday.All this tinkering though with odd meetings here and there is not going to achieve much while there is far too much racing for too little money and they continue to do sweet FA about it.
I see The Derby is once again playing 2nd fiddle to football with the off time moved a hour earlier.
Ages ago it was suggested running the race on a weekday evening,maybe that will work?
As for Epsom’s rumoured plan to run the 3 group 1s on 3 days instead of 2,that would be very British racing wouldn’t itBrilliant, @homersimpson
“I’d run The Derby the first Wednesday in June followed by The Oaks & Coronation Cup the following Saturday.”
I grew up not far from Epsom and we would always attend all four days: Derby Day on the Wednesday, Coronation Cup on the Thursday, then Canada Day and finally Oaks Day.
Canada Day has long fallen by the wayside, but there’s no reason why the meeting can’t go back to being a three-day fixture, running from Friday to Sunday. Hold the Derby on the opening day, so that it isn’t lost in all the meaningless football friendlies and Formula One drivel.
Oh yeah – Epsom should bring back the 2 1/4 mile Great Metropolitan Handicap, while they’re at it.
Possibly more of an over reaction to thinking “Haydock, no not again”. I think it’s their third Saturday meeting in May and the sixth within the month.
Although it’s a fair meeting it does tend to be palate jading to have the same venue used too much. Chester on the same day too not very far away.
I wondered if a beefed up Brigadier Gerard meeting could have been proposed for the Saturday.
I don’t agree with Dan
Wow, we have to wait an extra week, big dealGaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
I suppose we are going to have to endure all the talk next week about “Derby Day Isn’t What It Used To Be”. And how apparently moving the race back to a Wednesday afternoon will cause a miraculous upturn in its fortunes.
Don’t we just have to accept it is no longer realistic to expect a race featuring horses unknown to the general public to grip the popular imagination? There are far more activities people can get up to on a Saturday afternoon nowadays. And moving the race back to Wednesday afternoon when lots of people are in work is not exactly going to boost the audience either.
Maybe we have to get radical. I can’t remember who it was (it might have been Alan Potts but I apologise if it wasn’t) but he suggested moving the Derby, Oaks and Coronation Cup to Royal Ascot through the simple expedient of upgrading the King Edward VII, Ribblesdale and Hardwicke to Group 1. It would ensure the races were run at a much more high profile meeting.
It would be a shame to lose the history of Epsom but Group 1 races have been moved before. Outside of the Derby meeting, the racing at Epsom is not particularly distinguished. It is not a good track and the town is not a racing town anymore.
Horse racing loves to meddle, and rarely gets it right……
It’s just an anomaly this year, deal with it.
Though I’m reminded of the B/H Sandown meeting with the Henry II Stakes, plus the Temple Stakes live on Ch4……..now the latter is at Haydock, and the former is run on an evening meeting……
CAS,
My revolution that had no chance of ever happening was Guineas moved to mid May, St James Palace and Coronation Stakes increased to run over 10F as the second leg of new Triple Crown.
Then the Derby and Oaks run at the end of July Ascot meeting, with the King George moved to late August, or first Saturday in September as the first leg of an international series that would include the Arc and the Breeders Cup.
In effect you have a pair of Group 1 for 10F 3-y-olds, something long overdue, and a Derby timed to accommodate late developers at the trip.
The existing program set in the 19th century was designed to get all of the important races completed before the end of June, because the courses were generally bone hard in July/August. No watering systems back then and no AW gallops at the training centres.
I’ve only seen the first bit of that article but…
tbh I think it’s a fair enough suggestion to move the Oaks to this weekend. It would make a better Saturday than “John O’Gaunt Day”. As long as a gap of at least two weeks can always be kept between the Musidora and Oaks… And always at least 10 days between The Derby and the start of Royal Ascot. I’d also move the “Lester Piggott” to Oaks day. Having the Bronte Cup over almost 1m6f and Lester Piggott over almost 1m4f – both for older fillies and mares – is daft race planning… And the Lester Piggott ssimply should be at Epsom.
I’d also not be against moving the Coronation Cup. Maybe to the same Oaks day or (if we have to have a third Epsom day) the next day Sunday. A bigger gap between the Corry Cup and Hardwicke (and if any want to run in the Corry Cup and Prince Of Wales) could help all three races. Moving it closer to the Tatts Gold Cup isn’t much of a problem, as I doubt many would double up anyway. One of Racing’s assets could be that the Big races can be fitted into most TV schedules.
Or maybe just move the Corry Cup to today and the Oaks to the Sunday of the Derby meeting? With the Ribblesdale maybe moved to the Friday or Saturday of the Royal meeting in order to allow more to race in both.
Can see the argument for moving Epsom to a weekday evening, but did it work for the Irish Derby?
As CAS says, maybe we have to accept Racing is not a major sport for the general public anymore. That said, I am not against moving race times away from other sporting / national events on the day anyway. Even making it an evening meeting some years if that works out better.Value Is Everything“Horse racing loves to meddle, and rarely gets it right……”
I would agree with that but some of the suggestions on this thread would make an even bigger pigs ear of it than even racing’s “rulers” can manage.
Regarding Dan’s suggestion, could you imagine The Oaks and Coronation Cup being run today on an already cluttered up Saturday. What build up and analysis would they get? Just another 2 races on the coveyor belt of big races on a Saturday.Most of the rest of the week we are treated to rubbish racing, small fields, pathetic prize money. That’s what they should be dealing with, not shunting all the best races to a Saturday.
No wonder Lord Allen is having second thoughts about being the new Chair at the BHA.The Ebor used to be the centre of attention when it was on the Wednesday, now it’s just lost amongst all the other racing on a Saturday, even sharing a split screen more than once with some rubbish racing from elsewhere.
“could you imagine The Oaks and Coronation Cup being run today on an already cluttered up Saturday”.
I’d have thought it was blindingly obvious that if the Corry Cup and Oaks were moved… Some of the current cards / races today would be moved. So no, it wouldn’t be a “cluttered up Saturday”.
Value Is Everything“I’d have thought it was blindingly obvious that if the Corry Cup and Oaks were moved… Some of the current cards / races today would be moved. So no, it wouldn’t be a “cluttered up Saturday”.”
Moved by whom? Courses don’t like losing Saturday cards once they’ve got them, have you heard of so called “Super Saturday” Even bookmakers have spoken against that sort of thing. Every Saturday is cluttered up already and don’t forget the Irish fixtures.
In any event The Oaks run today would be too close to York and other trials.
I’ve not heard anyone say moving The Derby back to a Wednesday would see an up turn in the race’s fortune for years. Does it need to see an upturn in it’s fortunes, seems to be doing as well as you can expect but would be better on a Wednesday.
Presumably people were working when it was on a Wednesday before.If York and Haydock wanted to race on the same day, then they simply wouldn’t get much terrestrial coverage. I wouldn’t describe any of the handicaps today as Ebor class, so who would miss some (or all of them) from today’s ITV programme? Not “cluttered”, just a normal ITV programme similar to the Guineas. They tend to have a longer lead up and review to the Classics and other Group 1’s anyway. You might even prefer it.
If pay channels need to cover all races from every track then that’s their problem. Too much crap and not enough time on the good stuff was a main reason I stopped my subscriptions… And what’s on Sky and RTV have nothing to do with attracting more viewers anyway; because nobody subscribes to them unless already a Racing fan.
Some racecourses might even find it’s in their best interests not to race on that day.
Value Is Everything
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