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Constitution Hill

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  • #1624293
    Avatar photoCork All Star
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    I usually respect what Greg Wood has to say but I read the article last night and did not like it much. He is far too kind to Henderson. In particular, he seems to uncritically accept Henderson’s statement that the ground was good to firm. This is demonstrably false, as even a cursory look at the race times proves.

    Everyone knows Henderson would have no hesitation in running Constitution Hill on that sort of ground at Cheltenham. Ground the horse already produced a sublime performance on last March. But Wood does not even consider these points.

    #1624295
    Avatar photoMiss Woodford
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    Ascot has sandy-loam soil that is freely draining. Autueil has more heavy clay soil that holds onto water for longer – this can be remediated if they really wanted to, but clearly they are happy to let it stay waterlogged as long as possible.

    Greg Wood’s article was spot-on in recognizing the effect of changing climate on racing, but I still contest the idea that good-firm is more dangerous for the horse. There is just no evidence for that.

    #1624298
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    “I usually respect what Greg Wood has to say but I read the article last night and did not like it much. He is far too kind to Henderson. In particular, he seems to uncritically accept Henderson’s statement that the ground was good to firm. This is demonstrably false, as even a cursory look at the race times proves.”

    What I like about Greg Wood’s article is that he calmly steps back from the racing bubble and looks at the wider global climate change picture, and he doesn’t seek to sermonise about Henderson’s apparent myopic obsession with Cheltenham Festival, something I find a bit rich coming from other members of the racing media who are manifestly obsessed with the Festival themselves.

    The media has helped create the monster it now seeks to demonise – what happened at Ascot is the net result of Cheltenham being the be all and end all.

    Regarding the truth about the ground, it’s difficult.

    I live near Ascot and drive past regularly.

    I really wish I’d stopped to walk the course last Thursday.

    But I didn’t, so that limits the value of my input.

    But I can say two things.

    1. The state of the NH circuit during the hot summer looked borderline atrocious to me, no water on it and it turned yellow, reminding me visually of the Hard ground days at Devon & Exeter etc in the 70s. The lush green sward on the constantly-watered Flat circuit alongside it only served to make it look worse. I can well believe the water table got non existent.

    2. Times are open to differing interpretations. When a horse rated circa 120 is around nine seconds slow for 2m on the Friday I conclude one rated 170 could clock a time fully ten seconds faster and that’s within standard. I think it was no softer than Good and drying out all the time. That said, was it really appreciably quicker than the Cheltenham surface on which Constitution Hill smashed standard by over four seconds in the Supreme?

    Maybe I’m biased – I think Greg Wood is a really good writer, a proper national newspaper journalist, but Lydia Hislop and Kevin Blake seem to me like they’re writing for a Parish magazine, apparently unlimited in length of article, able to take ten words when one will do, more like extended bloggers than what I would actually call proper national newspaper standard journalism.

    I find Wood a joy to read, but both of them really hard work.

    But maybe I’m just a broadsheet snob!

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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    #1624299
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    I agree Lydia Hislop’s articles could do with a good editor sometimes. I seldom read her entire Road to Cheltenham weekly blog. But I generally respect her opinion and the fact she is prepared to be critical when it is warranted.

    I do not think the same criticism can be levelled at Kevin Blake. His blog on the ATR site is generally to the point.

    #1624300
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    I can agree with a lot of that – Lydia Hislop is incredibly knowledgeable, she’s highly intelligent and thinks outside the box too, but I find her writing REALLY difficult to get through.

    She must find it very difficult herself to write any of her tweets to length because she could win an Olympic Gold medal for rambling on and taking 100 words to say what could be said in ten.

    I guess I included Kevin Blake because I didn’t want to make it look like I was picking on her personally.

    He is a tighter writer, I agree.

    But I found the tone of both of them regarding Ascot judgemental and I really struggle with that because, as stated, I think the racing media are just as culpable as Henderson (or any other trainer or owner) in making the entire NH season be about four days in March.

    The same racing media don’t obsess about any one Flat meeting to the exclusion of all else – there’s no “Road To Champions’ Day” – it’s high time they packed it in once and for all, stopped talking about every big Saturday race as a “Cheltenham Trial” and gave the entire season the proportionate respect it deserves.

    As was once the case back in the days of the Mackeson, the Hennessy, the Massey Ferguson, the SGB, the King George, the Schweppes, the Imperial Cup and that three-day fixture in March which, while the most important of all, was most definitely not the be all and end all.

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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    #1624302
    Avatar photoCork All Star
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    I think we can all agree that the National Hunt season is broken. Aside from the Cheltenham Festival being too dominant, there are the problems of:

    Trainers thinking good or good to soft ground is unsuitable or unsafe.

    Too many conditions races, resulting in small fields and poor betting.

    Too many of the best horses in a small number of stables, making it too easy to avoid each other.

    A four day festival making it possible for horses to avoid each other even at The Meeting That Matters.

    Almost all the best horses are trained in Ireland, making British jumps racing look like a second rate product.

    Unless there is a radical rethink, I can only see the traditional season continuing its decline.

    #1624304
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes and yes.

    THIS^, THIS^, THIS^, THIS^, THIS^ and THIS^.

    Some might say it’s my age speaking, but I don’t think the Flat season is broken, I can accept and even embrace change and while I don’t agree with all the changes to the Flat Calendar I do think some innovations on the level have been beneficial.

    But the NH season, for the reasons superbly itemised and summarised by CAS, is fundamentally BROKEN.

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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    #1624330
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    It is fairly easy to identify the problem. Not so straightforward to think of a solution.

    Cheltenham is not going to go back to being a three day meeting. Nor can we stop wealthy owners from sending their horses to the best trainers (or stop British owners from having their best horses trained in Ireland).

    It would be good if all trainers had the sort of attitude shown by Paul Nicholls and Dan Skelton towards ground conditions but I doubt that is going to happen either.

    We could turn some of the conditions races into handicaps. One of the highlights of the Flat season was Trueshan winning the Northumberland Plate under a huge top weight. It was exciting and you could decide if you were with him or against him.

    However, while in theory it might make these races more intriguing and produce more lively betting, in practice there is a risk that owners will send even more of their better horses to Ireland, where there are even more graded races.

    Perhaps we should focus on reinvigorating the season, as suggested by several posters above and rather along the lines of Barry Geraghty’s idea of Classics for the jumps. It was great to see the way the Skeltons celebrated after the Betfair Chase last week. It clearly meant a lot to them. Of course they want to win a Cheltenham Gold Cup but they also knew they had just landed a huge Grade 1 – a fine accomplishment in its own right.

    At Sandown in 9 days time, the Tingle Creek should also be promoted as a great race in its own right – not as a trial for The Only Day That Matters (as Henderson implied when he withdrew Altior from the race). The winner will have won a Grade 1 and it should be considered the equal of winning a Grade 1 at Cheltenham.

    Of course, some Grade 1s are stronger than others but any race that carries Grade 1 status should be treated with the respect it deserves, not as a sideshow before the festival arrives.

    There is also the issue of novice races and whether horses with experience from the point to point field really need to spend a whole season running in bumpers and then in novice hurdles and chases – but that is a whole new subject!

    As is the development of good quality Flat racing in the winter and the emergence of overseas racing which means far fewer quality performers from the Flat now go jumping. They are more likely to be sold to Australia, Hong Kong or the Middle East. A serious loss to the National Hunt season.

    #1624337
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    Constitution Hill is one of five declared for the Fighting Fifth – let joy be unconfined!

    For now.

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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    #1624341
    Avatar photoAndyRAC
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    Fabulous post from CAS!!

    Where do you start when looking for solutions? I think the whole programme/pattern needs a massive shake up. Endless small field graded races can’t bring in much betting revenue….and lots of the legends of the sport gained their status by running in handicaps. Why is the Betfair one week before the Hennessy?

    #1624342
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
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    Just 5 😂
    But it is a grade 1
    Henderson has two so that leaves 3 rivals
    Where is Paul Nicholls mob etc that run every week in every going condition 😂

    Blackbeard to conquer the World

    #1624349
    Avatar photoAndyRAC
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    There is a dearth of top class 2 milers, so it’s not a surprise at the small field. When did it last get a double figure field?

    #1624351
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
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    There were 9 possible runners yesterday
    4 have pulled out
    They are not trained by Nicky Henderson though so we shall hear no more about it

    Blackbeard to conquer the World

    #1624356
    LD73
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    I am not entirely convinced that Cheltenham is any more important now than it was in the past to connections but what I do think does give off that impression is the general wider media coverage that we have for all things now, not just sport.

    Racing now has two dedicated racing channels that broadcast every race at all meetings in Britain and Ireland and a number of races from France where before we used to only have 3-4 televised races at selected big meetings broadcast on terrestial TV be it from BBC/BBC2, ITV/World of Sport and Channel 4 Racing and if you were lucky you might get the odd big Irish races thrown in on a weekend too.

    Then throw into the mix all the social media platforms and the sport (and its participants) are now much more accesible (and have to be) then they have ever been at any time…..information about the horses used to be somewhat of a dark art when racing’s newspaper writers (not just those at The Sporting Life) would get the odd scoop from ‘sources’ that they knew in yards. Much more is known now and it is not just by ‘insiders’ but Joe Public now has access to so much more information than they ever did in the past which in equal measures can be good or bad depending on what information gets out.

    More of the top horses being housed in one or two stables (and under one or two owners) now doesn’t help things, along with more graded races available to run in and it seems to have helped issue in a change in thinking that trainers must keep their top horses apart at all costs until the big day.

    Whereas back in the day you would see the likes of Comedy of Errors/Lanzarote/Night Nurse/Monksfield/Sea Pigeon/Birds Nest etc regularly clashing outside of the Champion Hurdle in races like the Fighting Fifth, Cheltenham Trial Hurdle (aka the Bula Hurdles aka International Hurdle), Scotish & Welsh Champion Hurdles (that were much more highly prized) as well as running in big handicaps on all ground conditions…..times have changed and whilst some areas it was for the best that is not always the case.

    One could argue that a 3 day meeting made it even more special because of the limited chances you had of having a Festival winner and the fact that races were not tailor made for seemingly almost every type of horse….back then if your horse fell inbetween two distances you only had the option of dropping down in trip (Champion Hurdle or QMCC) or going up in trip (Stayers Hurdle or Gold Cup) and that added an extra dimension of competition.

    Wow – that got rather long winded and overly wordy….even for me….apologies to all

    #1624357
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
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    Henderson has won the Fighting Fifth 4 out of the last 5 same result in the Christmas Hurdle
    International Hurdle (grade 2) Henderson has won 3 out of the last 5
    This Henderson only cares about the festival doesn’t add up

    Blackbeard to conquer the World

    #1624369
    LD73
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    Those races (throw in the Christmas Hurdle) are still the tried and tested route for potential Champion Hurdlers or defending Champions.

    Going back to my earlier comment mentioning Sea Pigeon – came across this on YouTube, probably explains why many (myself included) still talk about that era of horses….apologies about the video quality

    #1624371
    Avatar photobefair
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    The plethora of conditions races has really affected competitiveness. On another thread, I noted how the then Massey-Ferguson was a really high quality race in the 70s. Pendil won under top-weight (and won the King George a few weeks later), Leap Frog also won under top-weight, with the Dikler 2nd and Crisp 5th.

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