- This topic has 199 replies, 49 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 10 months ago by
.
- Posts
- Total Posts 17716
Indeed the Outsiders are leaving, just look at the viewing figures, the Levy, The lack of interest from the general public nowdays.
Just dont go crying when Racecourses start to close down and prize money gets worse then.
"Black cloud on a summer day" is right!
Core viewers have moved from terrestrial to ATR/RUK, and there’s no evidence to suggest viewing figures for (say) the Grand National are on a downward spiral.
And what do you mean by "the general public"? I think I’m part of that, as I am purely a spectator. Our alleged "lack of interest" is a regular mantra, but we never see hard evidence for anything of the kind. What there is (notably improving racecourse attendances) points quite the other way.
Read the Deloitte report if you want to see how low the level of prize money rates as an argument for a higher levy. Once again, the evidence very clearly does not support this spurious argument one iota.
Now none of this really relates to whether A.P.McCoy is or isn’t speaking to RUK. He’s a perfect right not too, just as Ms Hislop has a perfect right to criticise his professionalism. There’s "previous" between them, as has been ably pointed out; but quite how this little insider tiff is somehow a sign that the sky is falling quite defeats me.
As for "outsiders" being of value to the perceived openness of the sport, if somebody can tell me how Paul Roy – the perfect outsider – has done anything to improve either the reality or the perception of how Racing is run, then I’d be interested to hear them (with due deference to the Silvoir Defence!)
As for "outsiders" being of value to the perceived openness of the sport, if somebody can tell me how Paul Roy – the perfect outsider – has done anything to improve either the reality or the perception of how Racing is run, then I’d be interested to hear them (with due deference to the Silvoir Defence!)
I can tell you Paul Roy F*** up big time with his Betfair relations but thats the nature of the beast,as for Silvoirs Defence,well Wolf Pack mentality,closing the ranks,read from a BHA approved script springs to mind! One thing i have noticed is Silvoir certainly doesn"t express silvoirs own opinion on things,i cant imagine writing something to deliver to the masses knowing i dont actually agree with a word of it but then again i would never make a politician either!
I wonder what Lydia made of AP’s ride aboard the 1/4 shot in the first at Newbury today.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
I wonder what Lydia made of AP’s ride aboard the 1/4 shot in the first at Newbury today.
It wont be just Lydia and RUK he wont be talking to after that result! His dog will be hiding in its kennel too!
I wonder what Lydia made of AP’s ride aboard the 1/4 shot in the first at Newbury today.
I didn’t see anything wrong with his ride
Noel Fehilly has broken his wrist on the fall of Rivaliste.
AP takes over the rides of Big Bucks & Neptune Collonges tomorrow at Newbury.
A couple of shocking rides that AP gave the horses in the last two races at Newbury today!!
Noel Fehilly has broken his wrist on the fall of Celestial Halo.
That’s really bad luck for Noel, he’s been riding so well recently
Black cloud on a summer’s day? I’ll say.
Just been in an independent bookmakers this afternoon for the Lingfield/early Wolverhampton cards. I counted thirty seven punters in and out from midday. The machines were hardly touched. Bit of football, a few dogs, the odd G1 Jockey bet, but mostly – I would say ninety percent of the trade – they were there for the horses. Like Clive Brittain said last night, we can talk ourselves into a depression and forget the good stuff, but as, TAPK argues, racing is built to last – our only
real
enemies are the offshore parasites, the boss of Billy Hills – and ourselves.
On topic? Go Lydia!
- Total Posts 102
Oh well thats the levy sorted then…..
Just been in an independent bookmakers this afternoon for the Lingfield/early Wolverhampton cards. I counted thirty seven punters in and out from midday. The machines were hardly touched. Bit of football, a few dogs, the odd G1 Jockey bet, but mostly – I would say ninety percent of the trade – they were there for the horses.
Similarly to my experience Max – but then me and you do seem to be among the few (on here) that actually visit bookies on a regular basis. Further to your observations (and I’ve mentioned this on here before) in my experience the vast majority of those playing the fancy fruit machines and a fair number punting on the footy aren’t interested in the ponies – never have been never will be.
A couple more points if I may:
It is often mentioned that the rise in football betting is an indication as to the decline of racing – but a point that is often missed in this argument is the fact that football betting has always been huge in this country. In fact it was so huge when I was a youngest that a whole army of people were mobilised on a Wednesday and Thursday evenings to actually collect your bets from your front door – the pools collectors.
All the de-regulation of betting on football created was an opportunity for the High Street Bookmakers to exploit an already existing market which they have (quite rightly) done so rather successfully.
For any in doubt an indication as to the importance of horseracing to the bookmakers can be gleamed from the 2009/10 HBLB Annual Report. In which it states that the changing of the 43 midweek (AW) race meeting in 2010 to twilight meetings, by adding one extra race to each card, resulted according the Bookmakers’ Committee to a net contribution to the levy of £400,000 – so back of the fag packet calculations the bookies made an extra £4,000,000 from added interest in racing which those additions created.
The bookmakers need racing far more than they ever care to mention – don’t be fooled otherwise.
Oh well thats the levy sorted then…..
The Levys only like a hot potatoe Zilzal,its cooking away just fine,i cant see any smoke and it certainly aint burning,when its not served up with the usual amount of Group races next season and the Derby has to be moved to Lingfield,i"ll start worrying until then dont concern yourself! I"m pretty damn sure next years Derby winner will pick up a cheque for over £850k,that would be 10% more than last year and you can bet the Levy contributes to over half of it! The BHA get more than they deserve mind!
I was in two pubs last weekend in Wellington and Ironbridge, Saturday eve and Sunday lunch. In both we overheard people talking about their bets at Haydock and Aintree.
The bookies understate the importance of horse racing to them.
That point is so true, Pete. In "A Licence To Print Money", Jamie Read talks about the football price war in the sixties between Hills and Ladbrokes which had the capacity to bring them down unless they called a truce.
People have always bet on football in this country and our sports co-exist happily.
The problem for a bookmaker is that football matches only occur – in a multi-fixture/event capacity – once per week –
The shops – a significant employer in this country – would be pretty forlorn places without a multi-event activity to keep the traffic flowing, yet that’s something they have to invest in. As grey dolphin says, it’s in their interests to keep the price down.
zilzal89, if you go back, there’s an entire thread on the Levy. We’re all aware of the dire state of that mad organ, but moaning and groaning isn’t going to change the situation. Moaners just play into Ralph Topping’s hands.
Topping couldn’t give two gibbering monkeys about horse racing. He would quite happily see it gone. He, and another Hills rep, were two of only five people in the Levy negotiations for 2012 who stimied a £75 million rollover payment – which wouldn’t have been a bad result in the circumstances, and because of his lethal intransigence, we’re all going to have to go to government.
He believes Hills would, if they have to, survive on hypnotic machines, greyhound racing, football and other sports; activities which cost them nothing. Its up to us to prove him and the other Jeremiah’s wrong by being positive, upbeat and stressing the positives about the sport whenever possible.
In 1988, football was on its knees in this country. Now look at it. It can happen for us too if we all keep the faith.
Max , that’s a tad naive, football dug itself out, had real leadership and some good brains to achieve it , Sky sports and the premiership was a marriage made in heaven
who have racing got ??………yep thats right , a whole load of fragmentation , led by Paul and Nick (groans )who antagonise their funding partners at every given …
Lets get real , as it stands racing has 2 chances under the present set up , and one of them has just left town
cheers
R
PS ffs LETS forget about Lydia and AP , its a storm in a teacup
- Total Posts 17716
The shops – a significant employer in this country – would be pretty forlorn places without a multi-event activity to keep the traffic flowing, yet that’s something they have to invest in. As grey dolphin says, it’s in their interests to keep the price down.
Max, you hit the nail on the head.
What’s happening is an unholy conspiracy to do down racing, from two opposing armies with a shared interest in convincing us (and government) that the sky is falling.
The BHA (and its treacherous allies) need to convince us that racing is at the buckle end, in order to squeeze more out of the bookies. The bookies need to convince us that racing is a diminishing part of their turnover, in order to keep the levy down.
With both parties needing to minimise the health of the sport which forms the core backbone of their day to day activities, it’s no wonder that nearly everyone outside the battle takes racing’s decline as a given fact.
This is not borne out, either by racecourse turnover figures or by the Deloitte report – that albatross round the neck of the inside authorities who commissioned it – and it’s about time we recognised the gloom and doom for what it is: a negotiation tactic, pure and simple.
Unfortunately the tactic is cancelled out when used by both sides. And you can bet your bottom dollar that once the levy is agreed, both sides will be telling us how wonderfully healthy and robust the sport truly is.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.