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Ahh yes Grayson everyone has a day off so let’s fleece the public and run a swarm of mind boggling Class 6 races. If you’re affronted by others stating their opinion then too bad mate you’ll be so afflicted often. Marketing folks know it isn’t a holiday in Scotland and large numbers leave London on bank Holiday weekends. Devon as you say had another racing fixture ( no good for the High St bookies ).
As for Drone your air of superiority is beginning to smell. Just because history offered even more dross doesn’t make the fixtures under discussion any more compelling. The "we should be thankful" tone does nothing for enhancing the sport of racing. As for your "perjorative throwaway" snipe you sound like a bigger snob than the fool blogging about punters in High St bookmaking shops.
It’s perfectly possible to have winners even when the quality is lacking. There’s big conspiracy theories around why racing is organised the way it is. Could it just be that everyone is off work so there’s going to be lots of meetings?
Well put. Agree.
Ahh yes Grayson everyone has a day off so let’s fleece the public and run a swarm of mind boggling Class 6 races.
As exemplified earlier in the thread, lower-grade races are not beyond comprehension for those who regard them as their most comfortable and lucrative betting metier. A little harder to set one’s watch by overall, perhaps, but not "fleecing" or "mind boggling" for all.
If you’re affronted by others stating their opinion then too bad mate you’ll be so afflicted often.
For the avoidance of doubt, I said "The tone of some postings on Bank Holiday dates borders on affront", not that I was affronted personally. It was that attitude of objecting to a Bank Holiday itinerary being as packed as it is, when there are cogent reasons for keeping it that way (at the very least), that was being highlighted.
I wouldn’t see it as a healthy precedent to whittle racing down to, say, four or five fixtures on such lucrative days for racecourses simply because that is as many as certain arms of the media, or certain armchair / bookmaker shop punters, can cope with. There are another 355-odd days in the year where numbers of concurrently running meetings are more manageable for them – let them keep the powder dry for those.
Marketing folks know it isn’t a holiday in Scotland and large numbers leave London on bank Holiday weekends. Devon as you say had another racing fixture ( no good for the High St bookies ).
The Scottish example I was happy enough to stand correction on from Bbob – magnanimity counts for plenty. Large numbers may leave London of a weekend, but it still defies credibility that one meeting in the capital couldn’t have been sustained yesterday.
Certain of you may rightly point to the fact that Sandown gave up a Whit Monday meeting to Carlisle a couple of years ago, but weren’t there extenuating circumstances behind that? At one stage, I think it was one of three meetings to take place Sandown during that week alone, but the decision was subsequently taken to consolidate efforts into making Bridagier Gerrard night the very best evening turf card of the year instead.
Unless anyone knows different, the Monday meeting was to all intents and purposes sacrificed as part of that strategy, and not necessarily on account of insufficient public uptake.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
I remember many years ago Hexham held their bank holiday fixture in the evening. I assume as they don’t hold the fixture anymore it wasn’t that successful?
If it was a Bank Holiday Monday meeting, then a glance at the fixture list for 2010 advises that no evening fixtures are programmed for either of the Holiday Mondays in May nowadays.
I’ll take Phil’s memory on trust but personally can’t recall the May bank holidays – or Easter when late enough – ever having evening meetings
Anyone know for sure?
The demographic attending bank holiday meetings is different, and I’d imagine Windsor for one wouldn’t care to race on these days as they wouldn’t attract nearly the crowd they do on regulation Mondays when the ‘something in the city’ types descend en masse after a hard day’s work fouling up the country’s finances
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Large numbers may leave London of a weekend, but it still defies credibility that one meeting in the capital couldn’t have been sustained yesterday.
Based on the retail figures I have to hand from London businesses over the bank holiday weekend I’d say you aren’t necessarily aware of the facts Grayson. Turnover was the equivalent of retail death this weekend and was massively under the returns of the previous weekend and many other standard weekends of the year. With the figures I have to hand this is a long term trend that’s only getting worse.
Maybe a London meeting could be sustained to some extent but I would hazard to guess that it would be miles behind expected returns for such fixtures ( the average saturday meeting ).
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BTW in 30 years of betting all over the globe and discussing betting/trading with other like minded souls I have never come across anyone who makes a long term profit from Class 6 type races. The chaos factors simply wont allow for it. Please supply any evidence to the contrary. I wont hold my breath waiting for anything concrete.
I’ve known plenty of bookies who can’t make a quid from low rated races. Impossible to lay the majority of runners. The size of the ring at any average day to day meeting of Class 6 standard ( including punters and bookies ) is testament to their minnowesque minority attraction.
BTW in 30 years of betting all over the globe and discussing betting/trading with other like minded souls I have never come across anyone who makes a long term profit from Class 6 type races. The chaos factors simply wont allow for it. Please supply any evidence to the contrary. I wont hold my breath waiting for anything concrete.
ALL CLASS 6 RACES UK JAN 01 2009 TO YESTERDAY
Winners ….. Runners ….. SR % ….. BFSP Profit ….. ROI%
2668 ….. 27845 ….. 9.58 …..+1236.77
….. 4.44
Thats backing them blind at actual BFSP. Guts of 3000 races "concrete" enough for you?
The size of the ring at any average day to day meeting of Class 6 standard ( including punters and bookies ) is testament to their minnowesque minority attraction.
Generally a million pounds sterling per Class 6 race on the exchanges. Wouldn’t be using the "average day to day" on-course betting ring to draw too many conclusions about UK racing markets these days.
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Hahaha.
Anyone can type out a report like that. If that makes for evidence in any field I’m your granny. What selections exactly are you betting blind at BFSP? If you’ve really had 27,845 bets in the last year and backed 2668 winners then good luck to you. If that’s some post fitted hypothetical then ditto – you need it.
Not everyone is a genius that can back 8 winners or so on average every single day of the week. I’m guessing you aren’t either.
Again I don’t expect to see anything concrete in the near future.
Anyone can type out a report like that. If that makes for evidence in any field I’m your granny. What selections exactly are you betting blind at BFSP? If you’ve really had 27,845 bets in the last year and backed 2668 winners then good luck to you. If that’s some post fitted hypothetical then ditto – you need it.
Thats backing
every
runner in
every
CLASS 6 race at actual BFSP since the start of 2009.
30 years…sure?
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Ok so that’s backfitted data that is purely hypothetical. I wouldn’t wipe my nose with the paper it’s written on. The info is virtually useless.
Not only am I positive about the 30 years Mr Clever Data Shifter, I put my money on before the race and work out my real returns based on those figures. Anyone can find numerous avenues to profit well after the races are run. The problems always occur when real money is deployed with foresight. Hypothetical hindsight is worth $0. Your BFSP hypothetical profit looks a lot sicker once the 5% deductions are made. How do the figures look at industry sp? How do they measure up over a period of 5 yrs? 10yrs? How do they look when 5-6 so called smarties all latch on to the idea?
I’m not even going to waste time seeing if your initial figures are correct. They are irrelevant to me. Anyone considering post fitted data as a fact is certainly muddying the waters. For what purpose? Don’t know or care!
More than enough said on this subject from me.
I like this idea that lower class races are a minefield specifically laid to snare in mugs & fools while providing bread & butter to the bookies but the Classics (for example) are a squeaky clean level playing field where anyone can pick the winner.
Because if that really were the case, we’d all be rich.
As it stands, I do most of my betting on lower class racing & without an exact figure to hand, I win some & I lose some but there’s no doubt I’m in profit so far this year.
If I’d saved up & lumped it all on the 2000 Guineas (or but for an act of Grand Theft Equine, the 1000 Guineas)favourites, I’d have lost the lot. And I would’ve only had the pleasure of watching two races as opposed to dozens (yes, it’s not just about money for some of us who actually enjoy the sport)
Not to mention while I’m ‘off on one’, I have set start & finish times & set days on/off at my place of work. So if I want to watch some racing, I can’t be quite so picky.
But let’s not let a good argument get in the way of the usual ‘dross’ cliche (copyright TRF 2010)
Chiswickian,
CR has replied with a fairly robust counterblast to your glib assertion that
no one can
make it pay betting Class 6 races. Make what you will of it
I’d be confident that the level stakes profit/loss at SP or BFSP is fairly consistent whatever subset of races you choose to analyse, given a sample size large enough to impart statistical significance; that’s probability in action, or more precisely the Bernoulli Law of Large Numbers applied to a weakly efficient market of which horse racing is an example
Turning your assertion around: what concrete evidence do you have that
everyone can’t
make betting Class 6 (or whatever) pay, other than you and the mates you’ve made on the thirty year old rollercoaster
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Your interpretation of arrogance and ignorance is what makes me a winner and you a loser AP. I know my mind, my facts and I stick to them. I also know what I have said and not said. Cav has done nothing more than prove that something was hypothetically possible in hindsight over a restricted period. That is not and never will qualify as long term fact.
Racing is a game played over many, many years. There have been legions of successful gamblers that have not been able to retain their wealth because of losing an edge, long term leaks or failures. Anyone citing me a load of data from a 12/18 month set as quantifiable proof is far more ignorant and arrogant than I’ll ever be. Nothing more than a cherry picker for immediate ego driven effect.
All I have said right from the start is that
I personally have never come across an individual that makes a long term profit from Cl6 type horses/races.
Somewhere along the line the likes of Drone have decided to change that clear and concise statement to
"No one can"
. That indeed is highly self serving misquotation.
There isn’t an individual among my detractors that has proven THEY are long term winners trading around Cl6 level. There is only one back fitter with a cherry picked statistic and all others are hanging their hat on that with the arrogance of absolute certainty.
Typically Mr Drone you now want to turn the matter around because you have failed to prove anything ( other than a hypothetical possible ) attacking me from your previous perspective. At least have the decency to re read my original and clear comment. Mr Drone that "fairly robust counterblast" wouldn’t hold water in a monsoon. And you have the cheek to call my assertions glib.
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