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There is not a prouder man on God’s earth than me at this moment. Winning was important, aye, but it was the way we have won that has
filled me with satisfaction. We did it by playing beautiful football.
Pure, beautiful, inventive football. There was not a negative thought
in our heads. Inter played right into our hands. It’s so sad to see
such gifted players shackled by a system that restricts their freedom
to think and act. Our fans would never accept that sort of sterile
approach. Our objective is always to try to win with style.â€Corm, football has changed since 1967, let it go it was ages ago. This is NOW!
winning is everything, nice football is only a bonus these days.
Rangers played some fantastic football when beating Lyon 3-0 on their own patch but that is all forgotten about or rather no-one wants to give credit, we also beat Sporting Lisbon on their own back yard 2-0, Barcelona only failed to score in two european games this season one was against Man Utd, guess who the other team was. (Messi and his anti-football jibe in that game was cheap and he couldn’t take being marked out of the game).
Corm I’m beginning to think you are a closet Celtic fan, you seem to try and argue a case for them.
Jim
"winning is everything, nice football is only a bonus these days"
Can’t agree with that. I’d rather watch Arsenal or Man. U than Chelsea or Liverpool, or at the other end of the table Newcastle (under Kegan, not Allardice) or Fulham (under Hodgson, not Sanchez) than Bolton or Wigan.
George, come on, think about it, you would like to watch nice football before winning anything? ofcourse if you can play nice football AND win something then that’s different but ask any team in the world what they’d like to do between playing nice football or just winning trophies I’d be surprised if they all didn’t want to win the trophies. (some teams never ever win anything).
Not many teams play good football and win trophies these days but if you do then thats a bonus, I didn’t hear anyone saying Man Utd played this "anti-football" nonsense against Barcelona in the first leg of their semi final.
It seems Rangers are the only team in world football that is being tagged as "anti-football", anti football doesn’t even exist but if it did how is it that the only team playing is Rangers? see what I’m getting at?
Messi started the anti football rubbish and the leeches have caught onto it, answer me this – what have Barcelona that super footballing side full of "stars" that play brilliant silky football won this season?
Rangers have played some great stuff in parts this season but I accept we’ve had to defend in other games – it’s all part of football, defending is part of the game, why should people moan about defending when some great Italian teams of the past perfected it?
Jim
Probably for the hard-core supporter, winning is almost all that matters. But there are many – I regard myself as one – who enjoy watching football first and foremost, and the result is secondary. Thus when the main Sky match on a Sunday afternoon is, say, Arsenal v Man. United I look forward to it with keener anticipation than if Liverpool v Chelsea, and very much greater anticipation than say Middlesborough v Everton or Derby v Bolton. Apart from the overall pattern of play, it is the moments of individual magic that the likes of Ronaldo, Giggs or most of the Arsenal side produce throughout their games. Not, of course, that players in other clubs can’t do similar – Kanu (Portsmouth), Taylor (Bolton), Arteta (Everton) and Bullard (Fulham) are among many players in the Premiership capable of "magic" moments.
The very best sides can "shut up shop" when necessary – and Man. United at Barca, the match you mention, is a case in point. But it would be absurd to think that that defensive performance was the essential Man. United who this year have come close to matching Arsenal for the sheer fluency and style of their play.
I think the difficulty Rangers face is that most weeks you don’t really have any competition – unlike the Premiership, where lower teams can and do regularly put the "big four" under presssure. West Ham, for example, solidly mid table last season, have an excellent record against Man. United (and indeed Arsenal) over the last few years. Bolton caused Chelsea no end of trouble last Sunday before equalising in the last minute. Reading (relegated, of course) did a "Man. United at Barca" early in the season at Old Trafford, and Fulham drew away at Chelsea and had two excellent chances of ending C’s unbeaten home record (now three full seasons) in the last ten minutes of that match. By contrast, much of the SPL aren’t really capable of giving the top two a game.
Looking at the game on Wednesday, Rangers defence was impressive – as it had been in all the competition games I have seen. But where was the flair or attacking skill? By contrast, both Zanet’s goals were gems as skilled passing, eventually cut Rangers defence to shreds. I am not anti-Rangers, or indeed anti any club. But with due respect, on what I saw on Wednesday night I didn’t see a single player whose performance would have Premiership clubs flocking to sign them. And I note with interest that one of the hardworking middle fielders was sold by Aston Villa to Fulham last Summer (no disrespect to Fulham but clearly not an advancement for the player concerned) and, despite the latter’s dire position, allowed to go on loan to Rangers during the Winter transfer window. It will be interesting to see whether he returns to Fulham, transfers to another Premiership side (and of course WBA, Stoke and either Bristol City or Hull will be anxious to get some players with Premiership experience), or stays at Rangers.
Here’s hoping that we see some good football in the Cardiff v Portsmouth match today. Early season Portsmouth looked excellent but they seem to have tailed off rather since Christmas, and of course Defoe can’t play so their attacking aspect will be a touch blunted. So the result is certainly not a foregone conclusion.
The Rangers fans have a siege mentality. Most of them are as thick as mince. The way they set upon that poor Manchester policeman was horrifying and nothing short of disgusting. Their behaviour was symptomatic of the majority of their fans’ mentality and mindset.
JIM JTS will naturally defend any criticism of his club – but then, that is the nature of the game up here as far as the old Firm is concerned.
Doesn’t make him right though.
Simply another blinkered bluenose in denial –
though of course, he’ll …deny it.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
And Himself, as a dyed-in-the-wool ‘Tic fan, is naturally best-placed to give an objective view.
Jim, it really is a tragedy that you think it’s more important to win, than to play good football.
Putting aside the aesthetic argument, if winning was all that mattered, would you be happy if Rangers moved to the League of Wales, rather than the Premiership?
They’d pretty much be guaranteed success in the former (and fairly regular hidings in the latter, I suspect).
Winning is devalued if the performance is unsatisfactory. You might go home with the trophy, but it’s a bit of a pyrrhic victory if you’re team is remembered with nothing but derision (like Steau Bucharest in the European Cup in the 90’s, or Greece at Euro2004).
Have to agree, Grasshoppper.
Football is for most of us a pastime, a pleasure, not a job. Much as I would love to see Walsall win something (anything!) if it meant playing ugly defensive football, the champagne would turn to dust in my mouth.
Whilst i agree it is more eye catching to watch the beauitful game played with attacking flair, as a neutral i was falling to sleep watching Rangers in europe but i can also appreciate the determination, work rate and team work that went into Rangers european games, if they had gone all out to against Fiorentina they would have been taken apart, good manager tactic’s imo. Man Utd have a superb range of attacking option’s but also show not much mercy when defending i.e vs Barcelona in the first leg of the semi final, Fergie hailed tactical genius.
Charles Darwin to conquer the World
Grass – They’d pretty much be guaranteed success in the former (and fairly regular hidings in the latter, I suspect).
I think they (Celtic and Rangers) would both definitely finish top half of teh Premiership as things stand.
However, within a year or two both would be able to attract players to rival the top 4 in that League and I’d expect both to be challenging for Champions League spots within five years max.
The reason they won’t get in is that the Premiership clubs know that to admit them would be consigning two of their own number to Championship status – permanently.
Matter of time though before Rangers and Celtic are either playing in England or a European Super-League.
Sides like Utd are hailed for a defensive performance because it is another string to their bow. It’s a different story when a side wins constantly with defensive football. 5 goals in 5 ties (9 matches) in the UEFA Cup says it all really.
Perhaps we should go back to the buzzphrase used prior to anti-football. Puke-football I think it was.
There are people in this thread that don’t even bother/care about football, there are those that post wrong stats, there are those that aren’t even reading what I’m writing, there are those that only see one side of the argument, there are those that have probably never even been to a game in Scotland, there are those that are only in here to score points and attempt to gain a reaction from me well this is not the kind of debates about football that I’m interested in as I like to keep my football debates REAL, I’m afraid to say I’m not getting this at TRF these days so maybe the time is right to move on, I’ve said in recent times I’ve not liked the way TRF is going and I’m not pointing the finger at any one individual but I’m putting a lot into these debates and always trying to keep it real, I’ve always kept cool in doing so even though some people just can’t handle facts and just post to score points, I take my football seriously and I’m wasting my time in here. I very much doubt I’ll be back, I may have been here too long anyway and all good things come to an end. I’ll also be giving up my website at the end of the month so the time to call it a day seems to be right.
Good luck everyone and good luck to whoever wins the SPL and I hope some of you have learned something about football from these threads.
The reason they won’t get in is that the Premiership clubs know that to admit them would be consigning two of their own number to Championship status – permanently.
That’s part of the reason.
However, I think the main reasons they’ve never been wanted by the Premiership are that:
(1) they’ve nothing to offer a league that already has full stadiums and a massive TV deal.
(2) They’re foreign clubs and inviting them would involve a huge legal battle with UEFA/FIFA and possible exclusion from the Champions League/UEFA cup gravy trains.
Matter of time though before Rangers and Celtic are either playing in England or a European Super-League.
Not a chance in hell.
The "going to England" thing was a nonsense from the getgo and the violence this week has killed off whatever tiny support that idea had.
As for a "European super-league", there’s just no talk of this in England, Spain, Italy or Germany. And, without the big teams from those countries, any "super league" is going to be a joke.
So, unless there’s a cobbling together of the old firm, the bigger Scandinavian minnows, PSV Einhoven, FC Copenhagen, Anderlecht etc…. (oooh, "super"), Rangers and Celtic are going nowhere.
Steve
Jim, it really is a tragedy that you think it’s more important to win, than to play good football.
Putting aside the aesthetic argument, if winning was all that mattered, would you be happy if Rangers moved to the League of Wales, rather than the Premiership?
I’d have to agree with Jim and say the winning is more important, i just cant understand how playing good football can be better than winning, yes its nice to see your team play good football but id rather see my team win consistently and go on to win trophies.
Winning is everything only for the die-hard club supporter.
Football is a game watched and played by millions daily. Sky Sports regularly has 4 or 5 matches live on Saturday and rarely a night goes by without at least one live match on telly. This is where the real money is made by football – through television – both directly through television rights and, more importantly, selling merchandise, for which television coverage is priceless.
Non-die-hard fans don’t want to see boring 1-0 wins or great defending, they want to see skill and class and excitement – how mant Man Utd fans in China, Japan etc want Ferdidand or Vidic on the back of their shirts. How many wanted Beckham or now want Ronaldo.
The same goes for kids in England, Ireland, Scotland, & Wales and everywhere else across Europe playing on their local greens – they all want to score, to be Ronaldo, Torres, Henry, van Nistelrooy etc – they want to play The Beautiful Game – they don’t care if they lose 10-9 – they just want to play and enjoy it.
This destruction of football goes back to the 1990s – arguably the last GREAT World Cup was 1986, this was followed by a WC final in 1990 which finished 1-0 (penalty in one of the worst matches I have ever seen), and then 0-0 in 1994. Now the winning of a WC brings such great rewards that the football played to get there is irrelevant – it is the winning that is important.
So while winning trophies is the end product of the sport, to dedicate your mind to this end only is not for the long-term good of the game and won’t win supporters in the long-run, either for the sport, or more importantly, for that club either.
How many extra fans do you think Rangers or Portsmouth have gained this week? How many people can’t wait to see them play again?
This destruction of football goes back to the 1990s
dunno about that David
I can just about remember the vicious Leeds side of the seventies and the deeply dull Arsenal of 71. Even the over lauded Liverpool of the 70/80’s were big 1-0 merchants. They were hardly cavalier
and then we had the long ball rubbish of the 80’s…
As for world cups, which year was that terrible Italy Germany final?
(there are a number of reasons why more recent WC’s have been poor IMO)
As fo winning is all..well as a big Chelsea fan (95% of home games 1982 to 2005 but barely go now..) doing the scousers 1-0 with a dodgy penatly would have pleased me. Perhaps more than the exciting game it was (nothing like making that vile lot whinge).And couldnt care less how we dol the mancs on wednesday. Even if it requires a pitchfork from the groundsman
Sometimes its about more than the pretty passing…
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