Classic Winners – Owners Colours

[ivanjica]

I have been meaning to ask about Dick Hollingsworth’s famous colours (Crimson, Silver Braid) for sometime.

They are now carried by horses in the ownership of Mark Dixon. What relationship, if any, is Mark Dixon to Dick Hollingsworth?

I notice Mark’s runner in Windsor’s 7.10 tonight is out of a daughter of Yawl who was owned by Hollingsworth and was herself a daughter of his 1980 Oaks winner Bireme. So I am assuming there is a family connection between the two owners?

[slewman]

Re-Mark Dixon

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A77346958

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A62802993

[slewman]

Thanks for the Arc silks for Ortello.
I think we just need 1928 Kantar (Ogden L. Mills) then we have the complete set for the Arc.

[ivanjica]

Thanks for the Arc silks for Ortello.
I think we just need 1928 Kantar (Ogden L. Mills) then we have the complete set for the Arc.

Brilliant find Isinglass!

Slewman, I have the Kantar silks as the traditional Ogden Phipps ones of

Black, Cherry Red cap

– Ogden L Mills was his uncle. I have made the assumption based on a painting of jockey caricatures on pg 59 of the 70th Arc Ciga commemorative magazine which I picked up in a shop in Newport Pagnell. All of the other sets of silks in the painting are accurate so I am assuming this to be accurate too.

[isinglass]

Hi , I’d also settled on ……

….. black cherry cap

for Kantar from "somewhere" in the past.

Regards
I.

[slewman]

I’ve done a bit of digging on this:

Beatrice Mills, OBE (1883 – 30 January 1972) was an American-born heiress. The daughter of the very wealthy

Ogden Mills

, she was a twin to Gladys, and brother to Ogden. In 1909, she married Bernard Forbes, 8th Earl of Granard with whom she had four children. Daughter Moira married Count Rossi of Switzerland and Eileen married the 5th Marquess of Bute.

With her marriage, Beatrice Mills would be known as Countess and/or Lady Granard. Her husband’s wealth was limited and she provided the funds to finish restoring the family’s historic Castleforbes in Newtownforbes, County Longford, Ireland. Their principal residence was at Forbes House, Halkin Street, SW1 in London plus a residence at 73 Rue de Varenne, Paris, France she would inherit from her father.

I have an old French race card with LADY GRANARD having a runner and her colours are stated as BLACK, GARNET CAP. You would think she took those colours over from her father Ogden Mills.

[isinglass]

Hi All

re King’s Bench 1951 Coventry Stakes winner – sorry , no colours yet but if it helps anyone else find them ………..

he finished second to Thunderhead II in 1952 2000 Guineas – can be seen on British Pathe website

also won the ’52 St James Palace Stakes at Royal Ascot and ’51 Middle Park Stakes

cheers
I.

[ile de bourbon]

I agree with Ivanjica’s comments regarding the Paul Duboscq, they are the colours I have for him. Regarding Molvedo, the youtube video (albeit black and white) would tend to indicate NO body markings (the scene where they come back to the unsaddling enclosure) – so can we assume that was just RED, BLACK cap??

Incidentally, does anybody know the colours of "Harvey Cohen" owner of Balla Cove, winner of the Middle Park for Ron Boss in 1989?? I thinks this was probably the only horse he has had, and its the one I am missing from the Middle Park!

Great research – I didn’t even realise there was a video of Molvedo on youtube – yes, I agree the red/black cap must be an odds on fav now.

I got very excited about Balla Cove as I was at the Solario in 1989 – however my racecard tells me he ran in the colours of a Mr J Ellis. However I then remembered I had acquired the racecard for the 1989 Breeders Cup on Ebay however that is less than definitive.

He ran in the juvenile under the trainer Ron McAnally, the owners listed as "Harve C Cohen, Herman King, Dion A Recachna". The colours are as follows:

"Neon Orange, White Music Emblems (single quavers)and Epaulets, Orange Sleevs, White Hoop and Cuffs, Orange and White (quartered cap)."

He actually led the field for quite a long way as in the following footage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjztpLFNpJY

I would be pretty surprised if he carried those silks in the Middle Park, although orange-ish does now start to ring a bell. I suspect we will have to acquire or hope someone on here has the 1989 middle park racecard. I am pretty sure I dont but will keep digging.

Courtesy of James Lambie (author of a wonderful book entitled "the Story of Your Life" (a history of the Sporting Life Newspaper which I would highly reccomend to anyone), I can confirm that the Life did quote Harvey Cohen’s colours for Balla Cove as "ORANGE, WHITE musical notes, ORANGE and WHITE hooped slvs, ORANGE cap" for the Middle Park, so almost exactly as you said Ivanjica! Interesting that he wwas allowed these in the UK. Maybe there was some reciprocal arrangement regarding colours registered overseas? I remember John Mulhern’s question mark colours being worn regularly over here. Of course, many years ago there weren’t the restrictions there now, are thinking of Mrs Valentine’s PINK, CHERRY hearts!! Dont know about the rest of you but I think racing is the poorer for it!

[ivanjica]

Great research as always IDB.

Totally agree that the sport is poorer in the UK for the limiting of colours/design choice. My dad has a small share in a Ponsonby horse and has said if he ever had his own colours they would be red, three white cresents on body, white sleeves, red cap.

I had to inform him he could never have those silks registered here hence my earlier question aboit whether you could register your silks in USA or Australia/NZ to get round the UK restrictions.

[slewman]

I’m pretty sure you don’t have to own a horse to register a set of colours. Think it costs a bit per year though. Although, as you mentioned patterns are a touch limited. I would be doubtful (but not 100 percent) that you could register them overseas and use them in the UK. Ring the Jockey Club and find out. I would love to have silks of Paul Mellon’s old Rokeby Stable in the US. Dark grey, yellow braids, yellow sleeves and cap. But I agree with your points. Sashes, hoops, stars, spots getting a bit boring I think. Last night’s French Derby winner Saonois carried Blue, Yellow Stars, Blue Cap.

[isinglass]

Hi , got the last of the American Triple Crown winners –

Belmont Stakes
1891 FOXFORD Charles H Rand white red star blue slvs & cap

On another topic , just read Doug Smith’s autobiography – there’s a picture of him winning the 1000 Guineas on Petite Etoile . In 3rd place is George Moore on another of the Aga’s horses : he was retained jockey for him then in France. Even in black & white the pictoral evidence seems to show that Petite Etoile carried the second colours of "green cap"

Unless you know different !!

cheers
I.

[slewman]

Isinglass, are we talking about Petite Etoile carrying Green and chocolate hoops and green cap or green with red sash, green cap?

[isinglass]

they look like hoops – not a great picture though so please don’t go making promises I can’t keep

I.

[Mero]

This is my first post on this forum.
I believe I have found some like-minded aficionados.

I have a page dedicated to the Melbourne Cup winning silks:
http://www.bomberblitz.com/~rmered/melbournecup.htm

So if anyone would like come of these colours drawn up for their website or even just their avatar, I’m more than willing to help.

Here’s a few templates I have with which to illustrate them.

Allerton’s new

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/rmered/Jockey-Standing-Template.gif

Allerton’s original

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/rmered/Darby-Dan-Farms.gif

English

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/rmered/2-16.gif

On Horseback

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/rmered/1861.gif

Hanging

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/rmered/Rewaaya.gif

and more
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/ … plates.gif
Also, if anyone would like to work on a project of presenting these colours I am also interested in being involved.

[Mero]

http://books.google.ca/books?id=UDUPAAA … &q&f=false

1864 Racing Calendar lists all colours registered to that point.

[Mero]

hopefully this link works.
I’ve made up about 150 of the 1860s silks and uploaded them to this link

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v477/rmered/Silks/

When you hold the mouse over the graphic the file name will tell you who the owner was.

[ile de bourbon]

Great stuff Mero, always good to see colours portrayed visually rather than just listed!!
Interesting mix of templates – did you create them online? Speking personally, I dont like Allerton’s new images as much as the previous ones!

I have created some excel spreadsheets that generate the gg.com colours if anybody is interested

[Author]

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