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happy to help
1977 Mrs McArdy Edith Kettlewell pink green slvs mauve cap
1975 Nocturnal Spree Mrs D. O’Kelly white maroon striped slvs maroon & yellow striped cap
1972 Waterloo Mrs R. Stanley red drab diamond on body
1964 Pourparler Lady Beatrice Granard black red stars and cap
1961 Sweet Solera Mrs Magnus Castello light blue claret sash qtd cap
I.
Thanks Slewman, you’re right about the American cap colours inconsistencies! Even having the racecard doesn’t always help either!
Also thanks Isinglass – I had Nocturnal Spree’s as merely red stripes having used an onlinie colour photo, so appreciate the greater detail.
Thanks guys for your help.
Back to a set of silks which have puzzled me for quite a long time was Vaguely Noble’s silks when winning the 1968 Arc.
I found on Ebay a jpeg with the 72 Arc field (won by San San) and Mme R.A. Franklyn (registered owner of Vaguely Noble) had an entry in the race.
The colours were described asvieil-or et brandebourgs, t. vieil-or
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With my limited French would that beOLD GOLD, with BRAIDS, OLD GOLD CAP
?
I knowvieil-or
is old gold as
or
is gold. And
brandebourgs
is a braid. If that is correct how would you describe these colours …. as above?
Slewman
an old chestnut Mrs Franklyn – discussed at length on earlier pages BUT never with a satisfactory conclusion – I think we agreed with the old gold but could never establish what colour the braid might be – maybe it was gold too and was just decoration??
Sorry no great help, but could you advise where to find the jpeg you refer to – would be good to see it.
On a separate note, I came across this that you may have seen:http://www.horseracingnation.com/tophorses.aspx
when researching which may be of interest with regards American owners in the future!!!!
Slewman
The Franklyn silks are definitely "Vieil or à brandebourgs, t. vieil or" which is exactly as you describe, and was confirmed to me by France Galop.
Sle
On a separate note, I came across this that you may have seen:http://www.horseracingnation.com/tophorses.aspx
when researching which may be of interest with regards American owners in the future!!!!
This sure is a good resource IDB. I actually registered as it is one of these sites where the members keep it updated – a bit like Wiki. From memory I completed the silks and gaps in pedigree for french animals like Ravinella and Allez France. I suppose between us with some time and patience we could revolutionise this site!!!
One race which i haven’t posted, the Prix du Cadran 20 furlongs (I suppose the Ascot Gold Cup of French racing).
PRIX DU CADRAN (4000m) at LONGCHAMP (G1)
2010 GENTOO (Serge Tripier-Mondancin)
RED, BLACK SLEEVES, RED CAP2009 ALANDI (H.H. Aga Khan)
GREEN, RED EPAULETS, GREEN CAP2008 BANNABY (Cuadra Miranda)
ROYAL BLUE, RED EPAULETS, RED CAP2007 LE MIRACLE (Renstall Gestut Hachtsee)
BROWN, MAROON CAP2006 SERGENT CECIL (Terry Cooper)
BLACK, LARGE YELLOW SPOTS, YELLOW SLEEVES, YELLOW CAP, BLACK SPOTS2005 REEFSCAPE (Khalid Abdulla)
GREEN, PINK EPAULETS, WHITE SLEEVES, PINK CAP2004 WESTERNER (Ecurie Wildenstein)
ROYAL BLUE, LIGHT BLUE CAP2003 WESTERNER (Ecurie Wildenstein)
ROYAL BLUE, LIGHT BLUE CAP2002 GIVE NOTICE (Stewart-Brown/Meacock)
BLACK, EMERALD GREEN SLEEVES, STRIPED CAP2001 GERMINIS (Robert Sallet)
YELLOW, RED DISC, RED SLEEVES, YELLOW SPOTS, RED CAP, YELLOW SPOTS2000 SAN SEBASTIAN (Mrs Michael Watt)
DARK BLUE, WHITE CHECKS, DARK BLUE SLEEVES, YELLOW CAP1999 TAJOUN (H.H. Aga Khan)
GREEN, RED EPAULETS, GREEN CAP1998 INVERMARK (Sir David Wills)
ROYAL BLUE, WHITE CROSS BELTS and SLEEVES, WHITE CAP, ROYAL BLUE SPOTS1997 CHIEF CONTENDER (Mrs Sue Magnier)
YELLOW, BLACK STAR1996 NONONITO (Patrick Sebagh)
YELLOW, DARK BLUE DISC and STARS on CAP1995 ALWAYS EARNEST (Mrs Claude Bourg)
PURPLE, RED HOOP and ARMLETS, PURPLE CAP1994 MOLESNES (Mitaab bin Abdullah)
WHITE, RED STARS ON SLEEVES, GREEN CAP1993 ASSESSOR (Bjorn E. Nelson)
BLACK, YELLOW CAP1992 SOUGHT OUT (Lord Weinstock)
PALE BLUE, YELLOW and WHITE CHECK CAP1991 VICTOIRE BLEUE (Daniel Wildenstein)
ROYAL BLUE, LIGHT BLUE CAP1990 MERCALLE (Raymond Le Poder)
WHITE, GREEN SLEEVES, PURPLE CAP1989 TREBROOK (Georges Blizniansky)
PINK, GREEN CHEVRONS, PINK SLEEVES, GREEN CAP1987 ROYAL GAIT (Manuel Pereira-Arias)
GREEN, LIGHT BLUE STRIPES, GREEN SLEEVES and CAP1986 AIR DE COUR (Daniel Wildenstein)
ROYAL BLUE, LIGHT BLUE CAP1985 BALITOU (Daniel Wildenstein)
ROYAL BLUE, LIGHT BLUE CAP1984 NEUSTRIEN (Naji Pharaon)
ROYAL BLUE, RED HOOPED SLEEVES, RED CAP1983 KARKOUR (Ecurie Manhattan)
PURPLE, PINK SLEEVES, PURPLE CAP1982 EL BADR (Mahmoud Fustok)
GREEN, RED ARMLETS, RED CAP1981 GOLD RIVER (Jacques Wertheimer)
ROYAL BLUE, WHITE SEAMS, SLEEVES and CAP1980 SHAFARAZ (Yurk Skalka)
ORANGE, BROWN CROSS BELTS, ORANGE CAP1979 EL BADR (Mahmoud Fustok)
GREEN, RED ARMLETS, RED CAP1978 BUCKSKIN (Daniel Wildenstein)
ROYAL BLUE, LIGHT BLUE CAP1977 BUCKSKIN (Daniel Wildenstein)
ROYAL BLUE, LIGHT BLUE CAP1976 SAGARO (Gerry Oldham)
WHITE and CHOCOLATE HOOPS, WHITE CAP1975 LE BAVARD (Henry Aubert)
BLACK, RED SLEEVES, YELLOW CAP1974 RECUPERE (Alan Clore)
LIGHT BLUE, MAUVE HALVED SLEEVES1973 LASSALLE (Zenya Yoshida)
BLACK and YELLOW STRIPES, RED SLEEVES1972 ROCK ROI (Roger Hue-Williams)
WHITE, SCARLET ‘V’, SCARLET CAP1971 RAMSIN (Baron Thierry van Zuylen)
WHITE, RED CHEVRONS, WHITE SLEEVES, QUARTERED CAP1970 LE CHOUAN (Daniel Wildenstein)
ROYAL BLUE, LIGHT BLUE CAP1969 LEVMOSS (Seamus McGrath)
GREEN, RED SEAMS and CAP1967 DANSEUR (Mme Francois Dupre)
GREY, PINK CAP1966 FANTOMAS (Alex Weisweiller)
MAROON, MAROON CAP1963 TAINE (A.A.Cartier)
LIGHT BLUE, DARK BLUE EPAULETS and ARMLETS and CAP1962 TAINE (A.A.Cartier)
LIGHT BLUE, DARK BLUE EPAULETS and ARMLETS and CAP1961 PUISSANT CHEF (Henry Aubert)
BLACK, RED SLEEVES, YELLOW CAP1958 SCOT (Mme Cino Del Duca)
ROYAL BLUE, WHITE CROSS of LORRAINE, WHITE SLEEVES and CAP1957 CAMBREMER (Ralph B. Strassburger)
YELLOW, LIGHT BLUE ST. ANDREWS CROSS, DARK BLUE SLEEVES, YELLOW CAP1956 BEWITCHED (Mme Cino Del Duca)
ROYAL BLUE, WHITE CROSS of LORRAINE, WHITE SLEEVES and CAP1955 ELPENOR (Marcel Boussac)
ORANGE, GREY CAP1952 MAT DE COCAGNE (Alex Weisweiller)
MAROON, MAROON CAPBlimey , another French race to worry about now – thanks !!
when my PC runs a bit quicker I’ll post the remaining Irish classics I’ve done and then the French after that.
Ta
I.Excellent work Slewman.
Re: Le Bavard 1975, I had his owner as A Aubert, rather that Henri Aubert, with the colours being Pink, Black Braces, Pink and Black Striped Cap.
Buckskin was trained in 1977 by Angel Penna, but the following year was in the care of Peter Walwyn so I am assuming he would have worn Wildenstein’s English colours which included the addition of light blue epaulets.
Waldmeister won in 1965 in the Arpad Plesch colours of Light Blue, Red Spots – not sure if it is a red cap as suggested in some publications or a light blue one as the following picture seems to suggest:
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h … 80&bih=897Azincourt was victorious in 1964 in the Wertheimer silks.
One set of French silks which often caus eme confusion are those of the Rothschilds. Does anyone know if Ciel Etoile (1950) wore the main dark blue yellow cap version, or as I think I have seen suggested somewhere the yellow/blue hoops yellow cap?
The photo and video of Sassafras winning the Arc shows he wore a plain light blue cap, but her colours with Derby winners Psdium and Henbit show red spots on the light blue cap. When Buckskin was transferred to England he ran in Royal blue, light blue epaulets and cap. With Le Bavard, his owner on Wikipedia is Henry Aubert, the same owner of Arc winner Puissant Chef. As for the de Rothschilds, a long list of family members have raced horses. That’s a toughie, might have to do some investigating into that one.
1978 Arc race card Alleged Trillion Acamas
If you magnify it it is readablehttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1978-Arc-race-car … 4159c8c43e
1979 Arc race card Three Troikas Troy Le Marmot
Le Bavard definitely ran in the Black and Red of henri Aubert in the 1975 Ascot Gold Cup (from the racecard), as did Puissant Chef in the 1960 Arc (albeit my phot is black and white).
Mrs Plesch is more confusing – all references I have in racecards (and the B&H book) suggest "LIGHT BLUE, SCARLET spots" which would indicate spots on the cap. BUT the 1966 Tote Racing Annual specifically records colours for Arpad plesch as the same but with a light blue cap (although the picture of Waldmeister has spots on the cap!!!!).
The 1964 Ruffs has both colours listed the same (i.e spots on the cap). Maybe its just another case of somebody leaving the proper cap at home on race day!!!!
There is an admittedly small B&W photo of Miswaki winning the 1980 Salamndre in Timeform Rachorses 1980, and that seems to depict a red cap – so my guess is that at some stage the Plesch colours were changed to a red cap (only in France of course as the English colours were definitely a blue cap with red spots as already pointed out (Henbit, Psidium).
I seem to recall a horse called Filago running at Arc weekend in 1989 when I was there, and the racecard definitely depicted a red cap.
Yes Slewman, the Rothschild colours have really done my head in. Just when you think you have cracked it a picture turns up contradicting what you thought. I even wrote to the Rothschild’s UK archive but without any luck. They were helpful and guided me to a good article but it only refers to their "blue and yellow" silks without being specific.
After some study of jpeg race cards I have obtained over the years. Here is what i have come up with the de Rothschild family silks. The years next to the owners are the jpegs i have from old race cards.
1898, 1902 LEOPOLD DE ROTHSCHILD – DARK BLUE, YELLOW CAP
1915, 1935, 1936, 1938 EDOUARD DE ROTHSCHILD – BLUE AND YELLOW HOOPS, YELLOW CAP
1919, 1920, 1921, 1923 MR ANTHONY DE ROTHSCHILD – DARK BLUE, YELLOW CAP
1914, 1915, 1920, 1921, 1923, 1924, 1925, 1928, 1934, 1936, 1939, 1953 MR JAMES A. DE ROTHSCHILD – DARK BLUE, YELLOW CHEVRONS AND CAP
1950, 1951 BARON GUY DE ROTHSCHILD – BLUE AND YELLOW HOOPS, BLUE CAP
1962 BARON GUY DE ROTHSCHILD – DARK BLUE, YELLOW CAP
So, here we go, Leopold de Rothschild owned horses in the early 1900’s and raced in the DARK BLUE, YELLOW CAP. On his death his son Anthony de Rothschild took over the silks. When Edouard de Rothschild passed on, a young Guy de Rothschild (later Baron Guy) took over the BLUE and YELLOW HOOPS, YELLOW CAP. When Anthony de Rothschild passed on, Baron Guy de Rothschild switched silks from blue and yellow hoops and took over the DARK BLUE, YELLOW CAP colours of his father Anthony. On his passing James A. de Rothschild’s DARK BLUE, YELLOW CHEVRONS ON BODY AND CAP were taken over by another de Rothschild member Baron Edouard (this is where it gets confusing). When Edouard started racing horses in the 1980s his colours were YELLOW, DARK BLUE CAP, but then switched to the chevrons pattern of James A. On Baron Guy de Rothschild’s death, Edouard took over the DARK BLUE, YELLOW CAP (i think he’s now president of France Galop). See, clear as mud …………… not.
The Goculdas colours in India were always cherry and Black Hoops with Hooped sleeves. I think he ran in the same colours there. They are stil used in India by the family.
Thanks for the update PDG , welcome .
don’t you just love those de Rothschilds. to add to the story the other day I found on e-bay a picture of an old GP de Paris winner owned by Maurice de R. ( won French classics between 1909 – 1938 )
dark blue yellow braid & seams yellow cap
slot that in the family history
cheers
I.Irish 1000 Guineas ( according to me anyway )
2010 BETHRAH Hamdan Al Maktoum blue white epaulettes striped cap
2009 AGAIN Tabor / Magnier blue orange disc striped slvs & cap
2008 HALFWAY TO HEAVEN Tabor / Smith / Magnier blue orange disc striped slvs & cap
2007 FINSCEAL BEO Michael Ryan dark blue green hoops qtd cap
2006 NIGHTIME Marguerite Weld blue white slvs blue & orange qtd cap
2005 SAOIRE Joseph Joyce blue white slvs blue stars qtd cap
2004 ATTRACTION Duke of Roxburghe silver green slvs
2003 YESTERDAY Sue Magnier dark blue
2002 GOSSAMER Gerald Leigh brown beige chevrons on body
2001 IMAGINE Sue Magnier dark blue
2000 CRIMPLENE Marwan Al Maktoum white light blue chevron striped slvs
1999 HULA ANGEL Jim Fleming white mauve sash striped slvs mauve cap
1998 TARASCON Jane Rowlinson pink grey hooped slvs
1997 CLASSIC PARK Mrs Seamus Burns white red stars & cap
1996 MATIYA Hamdan Al Maktoum blue white epaulettes striped cap
1995 RIDGEWOOD PEARL Anne Coughlan yellow and white halves slvs reversed red & white striped cap
1994 MEHTHAAF Hamdan Al Maktoum blue white epaulettes striped cap
1993 NICER Catherine Corbett blue silver striped slvs red & blue hooped cap
1992 MARLING Edmund Loder yellow blue slvs black cap
1991 KOOYONGA Mitsuo Haga red white triple diamond & slvs white cap pink star
1990 IN THE GROOVE Brian Cooper maroon & grey halved slvs reversed qtd cap
1989 ENSCONSE Sheikh Mohammed maroon white slvs & star on cap
1988 TRUSTED PARTNER Moyglare Stud Farm black white slvs red cap black star
1987 FOREST FLOWER Paul Mellon black gold cross & stripe on cap
1986 SONIC LADY Sheikh Mohammed maroon white slvs & star on cap
1985 AL BAHATHRI Hamdan Al Maktoum blue white epaulettes striped cap
1984 KATIES Terry Ramsden blue & white hoops white slvs blue cap
1983 L’ATTRAYANTE Mrs Charles Thériot orange green x belts
1982 PRINCE’S POLLY HELP
1981 ARCTIQUE ROYALE Jean-Pierre Binet dark green black hooped slvs & cap
1980 CAIRN ROUGE D. Brady green yellow hoop & armlets red cap
1979 GODETIA Robert Sangster green blue slvs white cap green spots
1978 MORE SO L Gelb yellow blue sash & cap blue slvs yellow spots
1977 LADY CAPULET R Sangster green blue slvs white cap green spots
1976 SARAH SIDDONS Mrs J Mullion white red collar & cuffs tartan cap
1975 MIRALLA Lady Lister Kaye HELP
1974 GAILY Sir Michael Sobell light blue yellow and white checked cap
1973 CLOONAGH A Boyd Rochfort light blue black slvs check cap
1972 PIDGET Norman Butler light blue dark blue spots on cap ( would like confirmation please )
1971 FAVOLETTA R Moller chocolate gold braid slvs & qtd cap
1970 BLACK SATIN W Reynolds orange & yellow qtd hooped slvs orange cap
1969 WENDUYNE JR Mullion white tartan sash and cap
1968 FRONT ROW FG Allen white green x belts & cap yellow slvs
1967 LACQUER Eric Moller chocolate gold braid slvs & qtd cap
1966 VALORIS Charles Clore blue pink collar & cuffs white slvs blue & pink qtd cap
1965 ARDENT DANCER Mrs P McAllister tartan light blue x belts slvs & cap
1964 ROYAL DANSEUSE J McGrath green red seams & cap
1963 GAZPACHO Meg Mullion white red collar & cuffs tartan cap
1962 SHANDON BELLE S Abbott HELP
1961 LADY SENATOR G Freeman HELP
1960 ZENOBIA Mrs A Biddle dark blue white hoop on body & cap
1959 FIORENTINA Aly Khan chocolate & green hoops chocolate cap
1958 BUTIABA Aly Khan chocolate & green hoops chocolate cap
1957 EVEN STAR Sir Rex Cohen black & gold stripes hooped cap
1956 PEDEROBA Pierre Wertheimer blue white seams slvs & cap
1955 DARK ISSUE Sir Winston Churchill pink chocolate slvs & cap
1954 PANTOMIME QUEEN Eileen McLean HELP
1953 NORTHERN GLEAM Lady M Bury rose
1952 NASHUA H.H Aga Khan III chocolate & green hoops chocolate cap
1951 QUEEN OF SHEBA Dermot McCalmont scarlet & red quartered white cap
1950 PRINCESS TRUDY Robert McLlhagga black white chevron green cap
1949 SUNLIT RIDE
1948 MORNING WINGS
1947 SEA SYMPHONY
1946 ELLA RETFORD1945 PANASTRID Joseph McGrath green red seams & cap
1944 ANNETTA
1943 SUNTOP1942 MAJIDEH H.H Aga Khan III chocolate & green hoops chocolate cap
1941 MILADY ROSE
1940 GAINSWORTH
1939 SERPENT STAR1938 LAPEL Dermot McCalmont scarlet & red quartered white cap
1937 SOL SPERANZA
1936 HARVEST STAR W Barnett cherry black sash yellow & white qtd cap
1935 SMOKELESS RJ Duggan HELP
1934 KYLOE Sir Percy Loraine white black hoop on body black cap
1933 SPY-ANN Capt G Loder yellow blue slvs black cap
1932 PETONI
1931 SPIRAL JJ Maher pink white slvs & cap
1930 STAR OF EGYPT
1929 SOLOPTIC
1928 MOUCHERON1927 WEST INDIES Lady Mahon HELP
1926 RESPLENDENT D Sullivan light blue white sash qtd cap
1925 FLYING DINAH
1924 VOLTOI JJ Macaulay HELP
1923 GLENSHESK
1922 LADY VIOLETTELeger to follow
I.
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