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I know this has been announced as the last crop of CPS NH horses, and I definitely can’t see it changing after Envoi Allen’s crashing fall.
But my question is, they generally send their flat horses to English trainers. Why do they generally send their NH horses to Ireland? Is this a prize money issue? This festival has been an embarassment for the British NH scene.
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Maybe they thought it would give them the best chance of winning.
If so they were right.
Better trainers, more success at festivals. Prize money is only slightly better in Ireland at the top contrary to popular belief, and they spend hundreds of thousands on buying these horses so i dont think it really matters to them if a novice hurdle in ireland pays out a few grand more than in the UK.
May also be something to do with the tax system. I don’t know all the ins and outs of it really but perhaps its a contributory factor.
Its not just cheveley park either. Ronnie Bartlett, Joe Donnelly, Rich Ricci, The Potts Family in recent years, Jared O’Sullivan in recent years…all people who dont live in Ireland but see Ireland as their best option from a jump racing point of view, probably plenty of others too.
Looking at the Cheltenham results its embarrassing for the UK trainers. And its not just the big Irish trainers winning everything. Plenty of lesser heralded Irish trainers have won too:
Paul Nolan, Paul Hennessey, Peter Fahey, Gavin Cromwell, Emmett Mullins, Ian FergusonNo sign of a Nicholls horse even being competitive, Fry, Skelton, Pipe, King, Tizzard, Twiston Davis, O’Brien, Evan Williams, Phillip Hobbs, Gary Moore, Donald McCain, Venetia Williams, Ben Pauling, Kim Bailey….no where to be seen bar the odd place effort here or there.
Leaving aside their lack of quality in the grade ones, they cant even get horses well handicapped it seems
A tax issue? Perhaps that makes sense. I wouldn’t know. Maybe UK flat racing is relying on the prestige of its top races for stud purposes. A dangerous game it would seem, looking at NH.
It must be a fiscal reason – tax or prize money, or both.
And yes, its been an embarassment for the UK trainers. I never took much notice of the ‘Presbury Cup’, but the UK trainers have been hammered in to the dirt like never before. There has basically been almost zero Grade 1 races worthy of the name in England all season.
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There was an interview last season with, I think Richard Thompson, and one of his points was that the Irish trainers tend to run their better horses more often – hence why they’ve gone to Ireland, rather than Berkshire or Somerset.
“Fry, Skelton, Pipe, King, Tizzard, Twiston Davis, O’Brien, Evan Williams, Phillip Hobbs, Gary Moore, Donald McCain, Venetia Williams, Ben Pauling, Kim Bailey….no where to be seen bar the odd place effort here or there.”
Agree Wexford. Is it the case they do not have any good horses to train? Do they not have any owners prepared to spend money? Are their scouting operations poor? Or (whisper it quietly) are some of them just not very good trainers?
If I was a British trainer, I would seriously wonder if it is worth having runners at Cheltenham now. There are plenty of good races to win in the months before and at Aintree, Ayr, Perth and Sandown afterwards.
Its fair enough not winning graded races if you don’t have the horses for them
But they can’t even lay them out for a handicap anymore (admittedly langer dan was chucked in)
Look at how emmet mullins wins with everything he runs
When Irish horses are winning handicaps on the bridle after being almost tailed off, you have to ask questions about the handicapping system and how one trainer consistently gets horses in on generous marks. Because that was taking the mickey.
No sign of a Nicholls horse even being competitive, Fry, Skelton, Pipe, King, Tizzard, Twiston Davis, O’Brien, Evan Williams, Phillip Hobbs, Gary Moore, Donald McCain, Venetia Williams, Ben Pauling, Kim Bailey….no where to be seen bar the odd place effort here or there.
They were all pretty pathetic, maybe with Hendo the only exception. He had Shishkin who only faced four in a normal Novice Chase and Chantry House who collected after the Envoi Allen mishap. Otherwise even his stable form was questionable. Champ lined up in a Gold Cup and jumped zero fences like a chaser only to be pulled after six fences. Santini was tailed off at halfway and struggled from the very beginning. Craigneche was the only horse in a handicap to run a decent race.
Nicholls, King, Bailey, Tizzard never were at the races…. Only Skelton hit the crossbar twice and had a few placed horses from only 13 runners. I really hate it when he wins 3 or 4 on the card at Warwick or Southwell and is hailed as a stable in form.
To be fair to Bailey, he had the second in the Ultima which may have gone close to winning if he had jumped the last better. One of the few races, perhaps the only one, that British trained horses dominated.
Possibly something to do with there only being 2 Irish trained horses in the race. Although the UK have a pretty solid record in it either way.
I would like to see a statistical analysis of this point about Irish trainers running their top NH horses more often.
In my view you never see a W P Mullins top horse being “sent to the well” too often.
I am British (of Irish extraction) and find all this Prestbury Cup rivalry a bit divisive and jingoistic , to be honest. Having said that , it is nowhere near as loathsome as the Shergar Cup , national / continent team nonsense.
Owners can , and should , be able to choose the best location for their horses.
Some of the nonsense being spouted elsewhere , is frankly embarrassing.
However , I do think that the IHRB do need to up their game.Coggy, i havent a statistical analysis either, just a perception I have that the irish programme is better designed to enable horses to run in top races more often.
In Ireland a horse at the top level can be guaranteed a solid opportunity, be it hurdles/fences at any of the 3 main distances at regular intervals throughout the season. Down Royal, tipperary, punchestown or Gowran in october if you want to get them out early – Then early late november/early december John Durkan, Hilly Way, Clonmel Oil, Hattons Grace, Morgiana, royal bond, drinmore, then leopardstown christmas, then dublin racing festival, then cheltenham, then punchestown, with the possibility of aintree or fairyhouse in between depending on the horse and the targets chosen.
In the UK its more random – long gap between Christmas and Cheltenham. Christmas programme is more spread out from the long walk to the tolworth. It must be more difficult for a trainer to train horse A to have to peak this week and horse B to have to peak in ten days time. In Ireland the trainer has all the big races concentrated on a day or two and can train all his top horses to peak together at Christmas and the DRF knowing that there is a race to suit them all. That must be easier.
I think it would actually benefit the UK trainers and horses to bring them to ireland for the DRF instead of staying in the stable, or going to a 4/5 runner alternatives at Haydock, warwick or Newbury. Surely the Irish horses due to racing in better races are more battle hardened going to cheltenham
Whats the last crop tat? Havent they just sent 5 unraced youngsters to willie/henry? Link me to where you found out this was the last crop, must have missed it
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