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Here’s a quote from Edward Gillespie in todays Post –
"We are fairly aggressive in our attitude to making sure we get the best horses possible for our customers and there certainly will be conversations with both the owner and trainer to make sure we are maximising our chances.
I think our financial arrangements with regard to individual horses should remain our own concern. We are not afraid to put our hands in our pockets to get a horse, but we are also concious that we don’t want to do our negotiations in public."
It’s a specific response to the fact that Kauto Star isn’t being aimed at any Cheltenham race before the Gold Cup.
But the idea of a racecourse making secret payments to the connections of a horse leaves me uncomfortable. What if the trainer takes a payment to run and leaves the owner in ignorance? What about the other owners who pay the entry fees as normal, compete for just the prize money and find themselves taking on a horse that wouldn’t be running but for a bung?
If appearance money gets a horse to run in a trial he would otherwise have missed, is it likely that he’ll be 100% ready for the race? Indeed, if you can get paid for turning up, why not get beaten and earn a drop in your handicap mark as a bonus?
I’m not suggesting any of these things have happened, or would happen, but if the payments are secret, how would we know?
AP
I do agree Alan but would counter slightly in that if a trainer accepts the payment and runs a horse when it’s clearly not 100% then it’s fair to say it will most likely get beaten.
In doing so, the horse’s popularity and level of esteem will be damaged and while, if it remained a one-off, too much harm wouldn’t be caused it certainly wouldn’t do it any good.
As a result – lesser or no ‘appearance payments’ in future for said horse.
It would be a bit like a famous pop / rock star turning up purely for the money and playing a terrible set. The crowds would soon dwindle.
Some will say that this happens already but you’ll find that this is mainly older established acts who will always have a following no matter what.
Due to the perils of NH (and higher stud fees on the flat) it’s highly unlikely a once top class horse would be subjected to such events – plus it would surely be running without recieving a fee by such time.
If the opposite were to happen and the incentive gave the public the opportunity of seeing their fully tuned favourites more regularly then is that a bad thing ?
As I started with though – I do agree with the general concern.
Lee
Gillespie also wants "Frankie" to ride at the Festival and would find it "exciting" if more horses from the flat were to run there!
Look Eddie baby, why not have done, do a Haydock, and get rid of all those fences that are in the way. Then you could have Friday night flat racing during the summer – just think of all those pis s artists packing out the Centaur!! Go on man, you know it makes sense.
I never knock people because I’m nice and gentle but I get the feeling that if AP had named his thread ‘What is you favourite colour of silk’ – or even polled it – he’d have got more response
I can see why possibly the negotiations need to be in secret, but the final payments should be fully open to scrutiny, or rather, I don’t see any need why they should remain secret. This tendency towards secrecy, towards seeing racing as a private members club rather than a modern sport leads to people seeing corruption and conspiracy where there may be none.
Powder blue, by the way.
I don’t have a problem with owners being paid appearance money to run their horses. If it ensures more races with better and bigger fields then work away IMO. It should be more above board but then you run the risk of some owners saying "Kauto Star is getting £XXX so therefore I want £XXY" Although I must admit to being surprised to hear that, of all courses, Cheltenham deems it necessary to pay owners to run their horses there.
Gillespie also wants "Frankie" to ride at the Festival and would find it "exciting" if more horses from the flat were to run there!
Look Eddie baby, why not have done, do a Haydock, and get rid of all those fences that are in the way. Then you could have Friday night flat racing during the summer – just think of all those pis s artists packing out the Centaur!! Go on man, you know it makes sense.
I don’t have a problem with more horses off the flat running, the current lot of British 2m hurdlers aren’t great, are they? There’s always the possibility of finding another Alderbrook, then again maybe a Moonax!
Whilst never wanting to have a go at a post including positive comments about Alderbrook…. Andrew, if you look behind you there will be a mark in the wall. It’s the point that you just missed!
I don’t think bear is after more flat ‘osses running over jumps. Rather he’s suggesting that certain flat tracks obsessions with full beer tents irrespective of the quality of the racing is the way Mr Gillespie would really prefer Cheltenham to go.
Just wait for the inaugural Princess Di/Best Mate AW charity flat race as the main event on the festival’s 7th day in a few years.
…and I’ve been drinking !!
New thread
How to completly change one in less than 20 – sorry 3 posts
As much as I’d love to see the bigger and better fields, I do agree that there is something unsettling about paying connections to run their horses in certain races. There is already enough suspicion of underhand dealings in racing, we don’t need more.
IMO, Gillespie would be better employed using the cash to raise Cheltenham prize money, or better yet give the money to Betfair in order to change the 3rd leg of the Betfair Million from the Lancashire Chase to the Cotswolds Chase!As much as I’d love to see the bigger and better fields, I do agree that there is something unsettling about paying connections to run their horses in certain races. There is already enough suspicion of underhand dealings in racing, we don’t need more.
IMO, Gillespie would be better employed using the cash to raise Cheltenham prize money, or better yet give the money to Betfair in order to change the 3rd leg of the Betfair Million from the Lancashire Chase to the Cotswolds Chase!So EG feels that Appearance money is the way to go. Sorry, no,no,no, Who gets what? He got more than me, it’s just a recipe for disaster. The prize money at Cheltenham is more than good enough, if trainers don’t want to enter, that’s their problem. Personally I don’t feel courses should be bending over that far backwards to attract horses.
As for the Lancashire Chase, I can’t believe it’s still a Grade 1, with the ‘Mickey Mouse’ fences, Scandalous. No offence, but it could be run anywere now, howabout the Betfair Norfolk Chase at Fakenham.As a hypothetical example, how would backers of Hardy Eustace in last year’s Bula Hurdle feel, if it came out that connections had taken appearance money to run against Detroit City?
Not to mention those that backed DC later on the strength of that success.
AP
No offence, but it could be run anywere now, howabout the Betfair Norfolk Chase at Fakenham.
Sounds good to me, but then I bloody love Fakenham. Where do I sign?
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Bloody genius!
Let’s start a petition. Go Fakenham, it’s not your birthday, but you’re only up the road.
Wooh, and of course, yeah!
Bloody genius!
Let’s start a petition. Go Fakenham, it’s not your birthday, but you’re only up the road.
When you get to my age, every day feels like a birthday!
(((staggers off to change his dentures)))
And remember, folks, Lancashire may be nice (I was born and raised there), but Norfolk Enchants.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Common sense would tell you to use any additional funds to give owners and trainers an incentive to race by increasing prize money, rather than handing out brown envelopes in dark alleys to a select group.
But how much can Gillespie really be offering, if indeed he is aiming at connections of horses of the likes of Kauto Star and is it strictly a moral practice, underhandedness aside?
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