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I understand the concern, but there are big differences with Go Native and Grandouet and it’s not a fair comparison. Go Native was a speed/bridle horse through and through and used his speed to beat his rivals in the Fighting Fifth when there was absolutely no pace. He did the same at Kempton beating an underpar Binocular and Starluck a short head. He never extended all the way to the line and looked to have more to offer, other than in the fighting fifth but that was just farcical, take a look at how close the likes of Won in the Dark got.
We’ll see what happens but I agree, HF is still the one to beat. Maybe we’re making a mountain from a molehill regarding his set-back. Given his past, and the fact that he’s now proven around Prestbury Park, Mullins might just be happy to bide his time and aim him at Cheltenham and Punchestown.
He’s head and shoulders the best hurdler we’ve seen for a while.
Well I was pleased to say the least. Last year I said the difference between Binocular and Hurricane Fly was the Fly has the ability to quicken twice in a race. Well today Grandouet did the same thing but there is one huge difference.
Hurricane Fly has done it in a Champion Hurdle Grandouet hasn’t even ran in one.
We assume it was an exceptional Champion Hurdle and there’s nothing happened so far say it wasn’t.
It’s all down to whether the pace of the race gets Grandouet off the bridle or not. If he can come there travelling at the same time as Hurricane Fly I think he might just beat him. Not because he’s better but because he’s got longer legs DUH!!
That sound crazy? does to me too but he has got a much longer stride and it may just make that bit of difference that wins the day.
Mind you the likes of Spirit Son and Zarkander wont be sitting back watching.
Long way to go yet and anything but a 2 horse race.
So you said he wouldn’t come up the Cheltenham Hill Zarkava, now it’s due to getting weight from Overturn. Jesus man, in denial.
Do excuse me, JJM, whose Cheltenham Festival ante-post bets on Grandouet and Sprinter Sacre have seemingly and mysteriously already been collected in December based on all your posts on the matter, but everything is relative. Did you think I meant that he would just instantly stop the moment he got to the hill? Or did you think I meant he’d come up it slowly?
Well shock horror, I meant the latter, and it could just be that Overturn, reported by Jason Maguire to have felt a bit tired and conceding 4lbs to Grandouet, and the 4yo Brampour, coming off the back of 2 handicap wins and reported to have been flat out all the way in the Greatwood, came up it even slower than Grandouet did.
Perhaps I’m wrong, happy to hold my hands up if I am as always, but until I see him win a race at Cheltenham against proper Grade 1/2 horses, I’m going to remain a sceptic. Perhaps you don’t like my cynical eyes but being a gambler, I wouldn’t give them up. Far better to see the negatives in a performance than the positives.
This time last year everybody was raving about Menorah winning the race so impressively, more impressively than Grandouet IMO. He then went off 2nd fav for the Champion Hurdle at 3/1 and was comprehensively stuffed. Why? Because the fools who take style over substance failed to notice that the 2 horses he beat were novices.
Is Grandouet a good horse? Clearly he is, but he’s still a 4yo hurdler who hasn’t proved himself against anything like the best.
I’m not arguing, I find it rather bemusing you gave excuses prior to the run, and then when he hacks up, you make more excuses. Enjoy.
JJM – I hope your ante-post wager is each-way, my friend, as I’m confident Hurrican Fly will beat your fella.
To me Grandouet looked very smart indeed on Saturday however as several have mentioned I too am still not totally convinced that he will win.
I am not in any way knocking the horse but i am happy to have Zarkandar but wish all the Grandouet fans the best for March
Yes each way. If the Fly turns up he wins, more than happy to have my coconuts on him come March.
Just had a look at the market and when I saw the price of Grandouet my first inclination was to think Hurricane Fly wasn’t running. In fact he would still be too short even without Hurricane Fly.
Last year I backed him ante-post at 16/1 and he palpably failed to get home. He effectively punctured on the run-in. I can’t believe he has suddenly fallen in love with the Cheltenham hill. On Saturday he beat Overturn (not good enough/doesn’t like the track), Brampour (not good enough) and Menorah (just plain woeful). In terms of winning a Champion I doubt the form adds up to much at all.
So in this thread, JJM, you’ve managed to back Grandouet at 14s (first mention), then 25s and 20s, and lastly 20s. Cringe-worthy reading, aftertimers. Moving on.
You’re being a bit unfair stilvi. No one is saying the form he produced on Saturday is worthy of winning a Champion Hurdle, but the point is he’s going in the right direction. I hate the whole enigma regarding the ‘Cheltenham Hill’. It’s a stiff finish alright but the ability of a horse to act on it is somewhat overplayed.
His first visit to Cheltenham saw him finish well behind Sam Winner, but well clear of the rest. Given how he fought for his head on UK debut, it was no surprise to see Barry hold him up and not get really serious with him. Henderson does the same with all novice/juvenile hurdlers that tend to pull hard and not finish their races. He beat the rest nicely and didn’t look a horse that plainly flattened out.
In the Triumph the race fell apart and Barry was left in front way too soon with nothing no cover and nothing to aim at, which the horse clearly needs, and is confirmed, by his subsequently exaggerated hold-up style. Also factor in that he’d just turned four, so there is plenty of room for improvement stamina wise. Remember Punjabi in the Triumph?
Tracked leaders, challenged going well from 3 out until slight lead soon after 2 out, headed well before last, weakened run-in
Ok, so he didn’t win a vintage CH, but he won it, and battled all the way up that hill in a strongly run race. I know he had another year on his back compared to G, but Grandouet has shown form that Punjabi couldn’t at 5.
You say Overturn doesn’t like the track, what’s that based on? One Champion Hurdle where he finished a respectable seventh after being hassled all the way round, in a race not run to suit him? He had the run of the race in the International, with Pittoni never posing a threat, and was beaten fair and square, albeit conceding weight. Brampour mightn’t be good enough, but Grandouet was on the bit approaching the last and got it wrong, but still won going away.
There is no race like the Champion so there’s never really one solid piece of form to go on. There was the doubts about Solwhit/1000 stars form last year and look what happened. I agree, if HF turns up, he wins, but your reasoning for dismissing Grandouet is a bit premature, imo.
I think Grandouet conclusively proved he stays and gets up the hill on Saturday, which was the big issue for me given that he came there cruising round the final bend to the final flight in the Triumph Hurdle but was beaten five lengths into third.
It’s also worth remembering that last Saturday’s race was on the stiffer New Course and over half a furling further than will be the case for the Champion Hurdle over the easier Old Course which should also be more in his favour given that speed is what he is all about.
I would therefore think that we should up Grandouet’s win even more.
I was very impressed last year with Spirit Son.
Will be interesting to see when he makes a re-appearance this season.
If he is aimed at the Champion Hurdle as well as Grandouet, then it could be an interesting choice between the 2 for Barry Geraghty.
I’m amazed people think Hurricane Fly only has to turn up to win.
It may have been a good champion hurdle he won, but it wasn’t vintage. You cannot possibly say how good it was without the reigning champion even running. If Binocular had ran and ran anywhere near as well as his win the previous year it would have been a vintage champion hurdle.
The other thing is as well, you’re forgetting there are a few hurdles in the way, so if you think any horse race is a formality you need your head’s read. There are some young pretenders coming through also, as well as a certain Binocular hopefully lining up, so if you think the prices on offer about an historically fragile horse then fill your boots!For anyone who thinks HF will be easy to beat – post-race quotes from his last two runs:
06May11 Punchestown ( 16 Gd ,RPR173 )
He´s a serious racehorse, a real cracker. He settled and jumped super and it wouldn´t have mattered had it been a crawl – he´s got it all – Ruby Walsh; He was just awesome today. I was a bit worried half-way down the back but Ruby tells me he was never anxious. Hurricane Fly is not the biggest horse in the world but he has got so strong this season. He won´t be going to Auteuil. We´ll take him home and start focussing on next spring when his targets will again be the champion hurdles at Cheltenham and here – Willie Mullins15Mar11 Cheltenham ( 17 Gd ,RPR171 )
I would loved to have him (Paddy Mullins, trainer´s father) here. he preparation of this horse would have been half down to him. I imagined what he would have done in the same situation and tried to follow that. Learning from him to have patience with good horses has been the key to this horse.
Waiting and waiting and not rushing or trying to risk getting him here one or two of the other years. I thought about what he would have done which would have been to wait and put him away. I was thinking that as the horses were galloping up the straight that we were here with a bit of help from him. We´ve had an absolutely free run and I was pinching myself that everything was going right.
We didn´t have one day´s setback. He is very hyper and as a four year old it would have been a big challenge to come over here but he´s had so much racing now and a lot more mature. He hardly turned a hair until he went down to the start – Willie Mullins; I was in the position I wanted to be with the big guns in front of me. Iwas riding a Flat horse with speed so I was going to use that against the bumper horses.
I probably got there sooner than Iliked but he jumped the last but he proved stamina is not an issue and ground it out all the way to the line. I have very rarely done 10st in my life but I went to France and did 9st 12 when he was four. We always knew we had a machine. Willie´s primed him and got him spot on for the day. It´s the dream of days like today that keep you motivated. People made an issue about not ridinga winner last week but the biggest vote of confidence I got was when Willie Mullins and Paul Nicholls were willing to put me back on their horses – Ruby Walsh
If the Triumph was run now I have no doubt Grandoet would win,he had no cover coming up the hill and tanked out but they know this horse much better now and now know he needs to be covered up and given a toe to the last,he showed a great turn of foot to beat a horse who loves the hill-second beaten a nose the past two festivals.
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