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Geezus di I open a can of worms.
AP Mille Chief wouldn’t win a champion hurdle if it set of now. How alan King could praise the horse so highly after winning arce geting weight from a horse who wouldn’t be good enough to set the pace in a champion hurdle beats te hell out of me. He beat even less in his next race and nothing indicates he even good enough to be entered let alone win.
Menorah only beat Get me Out of here because he was caught on the hop a bit……….neither is Champion Hurdle class nor are they ever likley to be.
Despite the Cheltenham result if either meet Dunguib this season I doubt if they will live with him. Hoenstly think both were flattered because Dunguib wasn’t Dunguib that day.
Re Philip Feton JJ I’m sure he”s a lovely fella but I think he’s wrong about Dunguib and fences but if he won the Champion Hurdle by 10 lengths it wouldn’t surprise me one bit.
Re Go Natve beating Binocular. The state he was in at the time he’d have been beaten in a handicap.
He’s great horse at a level where things go his way but the Champion Hurdle will always be just beyond him. There’s a massive difference between beating horse during the build up and taking them on, on the day. Pace is much stronger changes in a flash, slows down one minute and the next quickens up so quickly horses going well get left standing.
Go Native of a nice even pace and with no hassle is one of the best around but upset his rythm and he goes to pot. Look back when he had a similar horse but quicker take him on in Hurricane Fly he collpased in a heap because he would have to have quickened again and he simply cant when under any sort of pressure IMO of course. Sorta reminds me of Harchiblad but a lot worse.
All that could turn out to be junk but ione thing I do know for certain is that the divide between Supreme and Triumph Hurdling and the Champion hurdle is like Evil Kneivel trying to jump the grand canyon on a puchbike.
Takes avery special horse to make the transition in 1 year and with Binocular and Hurricane Fly around this looks like being avinatge year.
Apart from Dunguib who has a really high cruising speed I can’t see any novice crossing that void.
Interesting to see a couple of new e/w contenders emerging after the weekend, was impressed with both Australia Day and Clerks Choice, in particular the latter.
The Triumph Hurdle has become quite a good pointer to this in the last few years with the likes of Katchit, Celestial Halo and Zaynar all doing well. The way Clerks Choice cruised by Barizan and Royal Mix(my tip for the Triumph last year) can only leave me thinking that by next march things could look quite different.
Just a quick look at the current odds would more-or-less tell you that last years supremes was twice as good as the triumph. Is this right, or is the supremes form still being overhyped by the presence of a certain Dunguib? I have my doubts.Still think Binny will win if in the same mood as last year, in fact i know. Hurricane Fly is very good but 5/1 to beat Binocular isnt very attractive to me. I dont think he could of done last year so see no reason why it should happen this year.
IC, Good post, I still think Peddlers has the cruising speed for 2m, I wouldn’t step him up just yet.
Menorah only beat Get me Out of here because he was caught on the hop a bit……….neither is Champion Hurdle class nor are they ever likley to be.
Because he was caught on the hop? What exactly does that mean? As for class to win a champion hurdle both are rated over 150 after their novice season which is higher than Binocular was, which would suggest they can.
Re Philip Feton JJ I’m sure he”s a lovely fella but I think he’s wrong about Dunguib and fences but if he won the Champion Hurdle by 10 lengths it wouldn’t surprise me one bit.
Wrong in what sense? Sending him over fences? I would suggest the horse looks extremely cautious over hurdles, not sure sending him over bigger obstacles is the answer. I’m not sure if Fenton is lovely or not, however he is not as dumb as horse **** as you so eloquently put it.
Re Go Natve beating Binocular. The state he was in at the time he’d have been beaten in a handicap.
He’s great horse at a level where things go his way but the Champion Hurdle will always be just beyond him. There’s a massive difference between beating horse during the build up and taking them on, on the day. Pace is much stronger changes in a flash, slows down one minute and the next quickens up so quickly horses going well get left standing.
In fairness, one thing this horse needs is good ground to be seen at his best, and I would not read too much into the race at Leopardstown when beaten by Hurricane Fly, the ground was too soft (slow time also, so not a true run race). His champion hurdle run was too bad to be true, again I would like to see him again in truly run race as I think it would benefit him rather than hinder.
On the topic of preparation and build up, I do believe Binocular was not even going to line up for the champion hurdle at one stage of his build up.
It’s very easy to dismiss horses and highlight their faults and weaknesses, however I don’t believe the novices will be a pushover. Binocular is the benchmark and was a deserved winner of last season renewal, I can’t see Hurricane Fly line up, in keeping with the previous two seasons.
JohnJ
Is Thousand Stars certain to go chasing this year? Looking at the Punchestown race, his overall profile and his liking Cheltenham then he is a very strong outsider for the Champion Hurdle if he goes that route.
I’d agree with that Shabby.
I’ve barely had a bet at Cheltenham the last few years, opting just to enjoy it, but I stuck a small bet on him for the Champion Hurdle a few weeks back.
Keeping my fingers crossed they still go down the hurdling route, although he’s got a helluva lot of improving to do, and the front 2 in the betting look very strong!
Thousand Stars is going chasing along with Mikael D’Haguenet, Arvika Legionnaire, Quel Esprit, Flat Out and Blazing Tempo.
Mullins has Hurricane Fly, Blackstairmountain and Quevega for the graded hurdles.
The returning Fiverforthree could be interesting in the staying hurdles – only just beaten by Solwhit in the Aintree Hurdle over 2m4 and bolted up on his first try over 3m in bottomless ground at Punchestown
Does anyone know anything about paul nicholls grey american trilogy, won at cheltenham in 2009 and then had a set back and was due to be out last autumn but had another set back and was put away until this campaigne but still havent seen or heard anything of him. Nicholls holds him in high regard and fancied him as a live outsider for the 2010 champ hurdle but he never made it. Has he been out but i missed him or will he be even racing this year??
A horse I really like too Fitzer, and had actually been meaning to find out myself what his condition was.
I know he’s included in the Ten to Follow, not that that stands for anything, but he’s a nice horse, and would be well capable of picking up a decent prize if back to his best.
Hopefully someone can shed some light.
Does anyone know anything about paul nicholls grey american trilogy, won at cheltenham in 2009 and then had a set back and was due to be out last autumn but had another set back and was put away until this campaigne but still havent seen or heard anything of him. Nicholls holds him in high regard and fancied him as a live outsider for the 2010 champ hurdle but he never made it. Has he been out but i missed him or will he be even racing this year??
He was at Rossdale’s for a period of time last year when i went there and it seemed that he had a few problems.
Haven’t heard anything else regarding the horse, but was definitely impressive at Cheltenham and one to keep on the right side of if returning to his best, following injury.
Does anyone know anything about paul nicholls grey american trilogy, won at cheltenham in 2009 and then had a set back and was due to be out last autumn but had another set back and was put away until this campaigne but still havent seen or heard anything of him. Nicholls holds him in high regard and fancied him as a live outsider for the 2010 champ hurdle but he never made it. Has he been out but i missed him or will he be even racing this year??
According to the RP earlier in the week he’s got an entry for the Greatwood.
- Total Posts 17716
IC, Good post, I still think Peddlers has the cruising speed for 2m, I wouldn’t step him up just yet.
Menorah only beat Get me Out of here because he was caught on the hop a bit……….neither is Champion Hurdle class nor are they ever likley to be.
Because he was caught on the hop? What exactly does that mean? As for class to win a champion hurdle both are rated over 150 after their novice season which is higher than Binocular was, which would suggest they can
I see nothing in his make up and even less to suggest either will be good enough to actually win a Champion Hurdle and even less in Menorah’s case.Can’t believe you are brining Binocular into this. Binny was a friggin 4 year old with 2 runs under his belt when he ran in the Supreme and was running in the Champion hurdle when he was Menorah’s age..and rated 169 That raised to 172 which would probably be nearer 174 if it hadn’t been for him being sick half the season. All these 2 have to do is improve 20lbs plus. I can assure you when Jonjo says he doesn’t tthink GMOOH is CH class he’s deadly serious.
Re Philip Feton JJ I’m sure he”s a lovely fella but I think he’s wrong about Dunguib and fences but if he won the Champion Hurdle by 10 lengths it wouldn’t surprise me one bit.
Wrong in what sense? Sending him over fences? I would suggest the horse looks extremely cautious over hurdles, not sure sending him over bigger obstacles is the answer. I’m not sure if Fenton is lovely or not, however he is not as dumb as horse [expletive] as you so eloquently put it.
Re Go Natve beating Binocular. The state he was in at the time he’d have been beaten in a handicap.
He’s great horse at a level where things go his way but the Champion Hurdle will always be just beyond him. There’s a massive difference between beating horse during the build up and taking them on, on the day. Pace is much stronger changes in a flash, slows down one minute and the next quickens up so quickly horses going well get left standing.
In fairness, one thing this horse needs is good ground to be seen at his best, and I would not read too much into the race at Leopardstown when beaten by Hurricane Fly, the ground was too soft (slow time also, so not a true run race). His champion hurdle run was too bad to be true, again I would like to see him again in truly run race as I think it would benefit him rather than hinder.
Don’t know why you would think that. Any horse can get a splint which cause him to miss the Supreme then very unluckily he sprained suspensory ligament. The latter is the easiest thing in the world to do but it doesn’t mean becuase you sprain your ankle once you’re going to do it every yearJohnJ
Fist,
Nicely posted after Get Me outta Here disappointed yesterday. I thought he was going the Arkle route according to what you were saying on the Arkle thread. Anyway, yes I have watched the race, and he did lose momentum over the second last, however he had plenty of time to recover, but didn’t, Menorah idled in the run and always had GMOH held, he is a decent horse and should improve again this season.
I know you seem to be in with O’Neill’s and Henderson’s stables, have you seen Dunguib jump a fence yet? I am sure Fenton has and has decided to keep him over the smaller obstacles for a reason. You should read Dunquib’s form, it makes interesting reading, I bet he clears up over here in bog like conditions in Grade 1 hurdles. Winning those types of races could win connections up to 100k euro, if I owned him, I certainly wouldn’t be firing him over fences just yet, but then again I am probably as dumb as horse sh*t also.
Go Native again, is a decent horse, as I have said he didn’t run his race at Cheltenham. How was he flattered by winning both the fighting fifth and the Christmas Hurdle? He was extremely impressive in both races, so how on earth was he flattered, sick horses or not sick horses?
I think Hurricane fly is an extremely fragile horse, being by Montjeu that is not really surprising, I don’t think he will make Cheltenham in March, but that’s just my opinion.
JohnJ
- Total Posts 17716
Actually said before he ran that Jonjo had said he wasn’t a champion hurdle horse.
We vey often see horses we think are better than they are because others don’t run to form or are unfit.
I maintain that The Fighting Fith was a bit of a joke.
Go back JJ and have a look and see how many jockeys used their whips in the race…..grand total of 1 and he finished last.
Most of those that ran needed the run and like many many early season races your get false results and horses get flattered.
For example you and I know GMOOH is alot better than we seen at the weekend and if he met the winner again on the same terms…….wellw which one would you back?
In a straight match on any course in the country. all being in A1 condition Binocular or Hurrcane Fly would beat Go Native IMO round Cheltenham they’de destroy him.
Just can’t have him despite thinking he might have won last year I alwasy had the nagging doubt he’d beeen flattered in his races and now I’m convinced he was.
Does anyone know what’s happening with Soldatino?
I get the feeling that Nicky Henderson is keeping plans open for the horse.
Was a very impressive winner i thought, of the Triumph, especially off the pace that Barizan set that day.
Nicky Henderson does have a wealth of talent in the hurdling division, so i imagine once plans for other horses become a little clearer, then there may be more concrete plans for the grey.
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