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in fairness you cant know for sure if this is the case? it might be the 1st time it has been captured on camera but to suggest it’s the 1st without having the evidence to back it up is a bit wide of the mark IMO.
I am quoting from the RP which stated that according to Brad Higgins ( Chief executive of Racetech ) it is the first time a handler has hit a horse since stalls were intoduced.
Pete
i read it also pete but they said they have not had an incident, to me they have not recieved a complaint or have any TV evidence of this since stall were introduced, the Tv coverage is good these days but not back in 1964, so i believe it has happened before just not reported, or caught on camera
Also the people on here defending it all seem to agree that sometimes a slap is the only way to teach a horse when playing up so i would say from this that it has happened plenty times before, of course i could be wrong but i dont think so!!ATR have once again shown the despicable behaviour of a Brighton stalls handler in hitting Caprio in the face before the 3.00 race.
People like this should be thrown out of the sport and hopefully he is given a life ban. I remember Paul O’Neill headbutting a horse at Stratford one day, and yet he still plies his trade as a jockey.
If people like this do such things to horses in front of the cameras, what are they capable of behind closed doors?
They are no friends of racing, and must be banned for life.
Lack of objectivity on behalf of the "racing insiders" ~ pot, kettle and black sir!
Firefox,
if this debate was started by a reasonable post about how racing should or should not be looking at its public image, then you may have found an entirely different type of discussion. Unfortunately the original post had you acting as judge and jury in a scenario where none of us had all the facts. In my opinion, those who believe that racing is cruel do so because they believe the misconstrued concept of racing horses against their will while hitting them with big sticks is inherently wrong and it’s hard to persuade them otherwise. Image is important to a degree and mistreatment of horses without justification should be punished, and seen to be punished. Correction of bad behaviour is not mistreatment, and we shouldn’t be so concerned with image that we punish people solely for that reason. If the first sentence of your post is true (and it may be) then I despair of the British public.
I’m not a "racing insider" by the way. My attitude to animals has been fostered by a childhood dealing with livestock where I was taught to look after the welfare of animals without becoming over-emotional about the realities of farming. I developed a love of racing at a very early age and have been passionate about it since. If I have got involved in the racing world, it’s because I’ve made an effort to do so, not because of some privilege afforded to me.
The racing “insiders”, if it is fair to describe SL and Rory as such, immediately form squares at the merest hint of any suggestion a member of their profession (even with visual evidence) has treated a racehorse in an abusive manner.
Perhaps it might be advisable for the racing insiders to employ a greater degree of objectivity about certain issues within the sport, instead of always jumping to the defence….
Hang on for just a second, it is precisely those of us you mention – who are experienced in dealing with horses, racehorses in particular – who are employing a degree of objectivity rather than employing the knee-jerk reaction of going in all guns blazing screaming “abuse” about a situation about which we know nothing about!
Like Rory, I am not a racing “insider” – I am known in the industry and have worked hard in it for many years, in a few different sections areas of the industry, and you’re suggestion that we are “insiders” who close ranks is insulting and wide of the mark.
Does it not seem odd to you that those people who are experienced in delaing with such animals are all, to a man, putting across the same point of view rather than screaming foul and making a song and dance over it? It’s common sense to me, I’m afraid.
katabatic really does put this debate into context;
"I’d rather be slapped on the nose than galloped down a steep hill on rock hard ground !"
The point will probably be lost on most visitors to this thread.
katabatic really does put this debate into context;
"I’d rather be slapped on the nose than galloped down a steep hill on rock hard ground !"
The point will probably be lost on most visitors to this thread.
Yes, you’re probably right there Wallace because ninety percent of TRF users are just plain stupid right?
Put down that trumpet mate, it’s not yours
Sorry had a couple. but cant cant help but feel that people may have over reacted to the slap in the face, as with the paul o’neill incident a couple of years back.
I love horses but at the end of the day they are big stupid animals (otherwise we’d all be rich), and sometimes they need correction. A slap in the face is nothing to a horse, lets be realistic about it.
I have seen a lot of complaints over the last couple of days saying the handler in question should be banned.
I would only ask what would the complainants make of rubbing a dogs nose in its own pish? Or extracting milk from a cow?
Lets ban the whip, lets ban jockeys and lets ban horse racing because horses are touchy feely creatures really (with feelings and the like)….
Slapping a horse in the face is nothing, and wheras I do think that everyone being up in arms is a positive display of peoples attitudes towards animal cruelty it does just go a bit far…
Can everyone put this incident into context please. No offense intended.
From what I have read that horse is an ignorant bull of a creature and he threatened the life of all those around him.You know the story of the old forty- niner and the mule. First you must get his attention!
It’s several years since I spent any time with horses but I do remember that, when I was with them I was always prepared to move out of the way as quickly as possible; one mare [who was actually a real character and I found it impossible to dislike her] thought it was great fun to come up behind me when I was doing the muck picking and bite me on the head. But the incident that really stays in my memory was of a friend who was standing next to me stroking one of the horses. She was very relaxed and seemed to be happy enough to be petted; in a split second she kicked forward and missed his stomach by centimetres….we just looked at each other and realised that she could have killed him. The last I heard of her she’s moved to another field and had broken someones arm.
Sorry had a couple. but cant cant help but feel that people may have over reacted to the slap in the face, as with the paul o’neill incident a couple of years back.
I love horses but at the end of the day they are big stupid animals (otherwise we’d all be rich), and sometimes they need correction. A slap in the face is nothing to a horse, lets be realistic about it.
Horses are not stupid animals and come about 9th in the the intelligence league of animals on this planet ( behind dolphins but ahead of people who watch Big Brother
)I’ll give Bulwark the benefit of the doubt ( as he admits to having a couple but probably more ) when he says that a slap in the face is nothing to a horse. Give some horses a slap in the face and the horse will never trust you again.
I agree that there probably has been an over reaction to this incident because ATR did not explain the situation properly and it seemed that the stall handler slapped ( looked more like a punch to my eyes ) the horse for no reason. Viewers were not aware of the previous actions of Caprio who in my opinion should never had reached the start as he should have been withdrawn as soon as he badly hurt his groom earlier on.
We can’t have horses being hit on the racecourse in this manner and should not be allowed on the racecourse unless it is in self defence. Racing has enough serious image problems as it is.
It seems to me from certain comments on this thread that some members are not horse racing enthusiasts but are just gambling enthusiasts who view horses as the equivalent of numbers on a roulette wheel. Take away the betting part of horse racing and these members would never watch a horse race again.
Pete
I’d have to disagree there SC – horses are pretty stupid, you know. For starters it’s a biological fact that they have very small brains.
It seems to me from certain comments on this thread that some members are not horse racing enthusiasts but are just gambling enthusiasts who view horses as the equivalent of numbers on a roulette wheel. Take away the betting part of horse racing and these members would never watch a horse race again.
Pete
Pete
Take away the betting part of horse racing and there would be no or very little horse racing for them to watch anyway. horse racing and gambling go pretty much hand in hand.
I’d have to disagree there SC – horses are pretty stupid, you know. For starters it’s a biological fact that they have very small brains.
I’m just saying that horses are not as stupid as a lot of people think.
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Take away the betting part of horse racing and there would be no or very little horse racing for them to watch anyway. horse racing and gambling go pretty much hand in hand.
Possibly true and the subject has been discussed previously on this forum and the general consensus was that it would continue on a smaller scale. I get the impression though that certain people care sod all about horses and all they care about is gambling.
Pete
Sorry, had one too many SC and probably worded a bit too harshly.
IMO horses are mostly brute force and ignorance, they are not IMO intelligent. I used to do stable work for a vet when I was younger and saw one horse stand up on its hind legs, fall over and break its back. One of the others would sprint everytime it saw the bottom of the hill leading up to the stable, it didnt matter what was in the way of it at the time, and it killed two dogs by crushing them on the way up that hill. Horses perceivable intelligence, IMO revolves around temperament and instinct in a given situation.
I havent yet seen the Stall handler incident, but from what I heard it was only a slap. I did however see the paul o’neill incident and it was nothing whatsoever. More of a frustrated tap with the peak of his helmet than a full on "sink the head in" job, that it was made out to be.
I do agree that it is bad for racings image when these things happen, and agree that the horse shouldnt have been there, but just like the horse the stupid stall handler should have handled things better, especially in front of cameras, but that was probably just a display of the stall handlers temperament and instinct in the emerging situation.
Indeed if he did punch the horse then he probably should be banned.
I would say I am both a horseracing enthusiast who loves gambling on them, I seldom bet on anything else. I just dont think that you have to condemn any people in the industry that make mistakes to fire and brimstone, to be considered a horse racing enthusiast as opposed to a gambling one.
I’d rather be slapped on the nose than galloped down a steep hill on rock hard ground !
Poor old Caprio, he was slapped on the nose and then galloped down a steep hill on rock hard ground at Brighton!
I’d have to disagree there SC – horses are pretty stupid, you know. For starters it’s a biological fact that they have very small brains.
This shows an utterly disrespectful attitude towards animals, in particular horses. In my experience anybody who likes to call an animal "stupid" usually treats animals with little if any compassion.
You now deny you are a racing insider? Perhaps my term has caught you out – by racing insider I simply mean, as I thought was obvious, a person who works inside the racing industry, and has a vested interest (by way of main income stream) in the sport existing, without external interference, in its current state.
Forgive me, but your posts on here and on another racing forum, for a number of years, strongly suggest you are by my definition very much a "racing insider" – everything from trainer, to owner, to groom et al.
Steady now firefox ~ you’re starting to look silly!
Ranking the intelligence of horses poorly doesn’t suggest any lack of respect towards them at all. To think it does, is again anthromorphism ~ horses aren’t belittled by being described as stupid, on account of them being too stupid to understand that the term can be used as an insult in humans. Geddit?
The term "racing insider" is a little misleading, don’t you think? Insider suggests someone at the heart of an industry, making or shaping policy and with a strong vested interest. Owning a racehorse doesn’t make anyone an insider. The industry SL has been employed in for some years isn’t the racing industry btw.
All a big fuss about nothing imo..
If the horse was fooling around to the extent that has been reported, then there is nothing wrong with giving it a slap. Horses are not humans, so any attempt to bring some sort of political correctness to dealing with stupid (yet potentially dangerous) animals is totally misguided imo
….and as for racing on a fast surface. If you have a sound racehorse then there is nothing wrong with fast ground. Indeed, I would sooner run a beast on genuinely fast ground than on overwatered ground.
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