- This topic has 152 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 12 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
“The one thing we can probably agree on is that he could have transcended the sport…”
I agree with that, SHL. Unfortunately, $$$ talk the loudest. It was estimated during the program that he could fetch about $40 million in stud fees during the first year alone. Not sure whether or not he could even be insured for that much if they decided to keep him in training. What would you do?..Personally, I don’t know what I would do under the circumstances.
I don’t see how anyone can expect a horse like that to stay in training.
With mares it’s commercially completely different, they can only produce one foal a year.
I need two outstanding displays to label a horse “great” – Roberto’s defeat of Brigadier Gerard was one but he never reached that level before or after.
Flightline has amazed me TWICE – I’ve seen enough, I don’t need him to race on.
That’s a great horse in my book, best dirt horse since Secretariat, maybe ever, and tbh even the great Frankel didn’t quite wow me the way Flightline has done in his last two races.
But it’s a game of opinions and no one is “right” or “wrong” as we all have our own ways of assessing horses.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"“Flightline has amazed me TWICE…That’s a great horse in my book.”
I think that is the key point. Anyone who is suggesting Flightline is not an all time great would have a much stronger case if his performance on Saturday was a one-off. But it was not. His previous effort was incredible based on the figures.
I must admit I had not really got caught up in the hype up until Saturday but that effort won me over. To keep up that gallop after the early pace was incredible.
I am not sure longevity should be used in assessing greatness. Plenty of great horses did not have that many races. When I was first getting properly interested in racing, it was common practice for Derby winners to be whisked off to stud at the end of their 3 year old season.
I am not even sure a horse has to put up two great performances to be considered great. I would still have regarded Flightline as an all time great after Saturday’s performance even without his previous run. I still think Zafonic is one of the best Flat horses I have ever seen based on his Guineas demolition job of Barathea. It does not bother me that he never did it again.
I would have loved to have seen Flightline in training next year and posted as such after the race. But as ID makes clear, the money involved makes that a completely unrealistic option. There is really nothing to be gained and a huge amount to risk losing.
As for the arguments I heard about how he should run on Turf to prove his greatness which some people in the racing media seriously put forward, I really have to question their judgement. Did they really believe that was ever going to happen?
If Mike Smith, who’s been riding for a couple of decades and has ridden some of the “all-time” greats in North America, said with total conviction that he’s “never seen anything like it”, that’s good enough for me. He received the highest speed rating in the history of the BC Classic! And there have been some “great” winners in the previous 38 years! He’s no “one-hit-wonder”, I’m sure of it. Many people, including some “expert” media-types, were predicting a “bounce” following his win at Del Mar. It didn’t happen. It was a historic performance…
Looking back at this year’s flat season, to be honest, I was not very optimistic early on. I didn’t see any stars being born following the Classics on both sides of the Atlantic. Then Baaeed came along. Then a couple of two-year-olds (LBB and Blackbeard) caught everyone’s attention. Suddenly, Flightline appeared with a tremendous performance in the Met Mile, and the “buzz” got louder. Things started to look very promising.
As the year progressed, Baeed gave us a performance of a lifetime in the Juddmonte International. But, unfortunately, it wasn’t Baaeed’s best performance as he lost his final race. However, Flightline kept the momentum, kept people’s attention and focus on the BC Classic. The rest is history..
All-in-all, I’m so glad for this year’s flat racing as it gave me some great moments and memories…
Now, I look forward to 2023 with plenty of optimism especially having witnessed some great performance by two-year-olds.
Good luck, everyone!
“he should run on Turf to prove his greatness”
I broadly agree with CAS and I find it incredibly narrow minded, Little Englander, and even xenophobic to think that just because all our big races are on Turf it is somehow a superior surface in the minds of some.
Especially as it’s mostly over-watered slop nowadays – the Americans deliver what used to be classic British summer Flat racing ground in November, good on ’em.
Not one but two cracking surfaces Stateside.
I have every bit as much respect for “dirt” racing as I have for racing on Turf.
Flightline has nothing to prove for me.
Not one but two of the most extraordinary performances I’ve seen in over 40 years following the game.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Give it 20 – 30 years Ian and the Derby will be 10f on dirt at
..
..
..
ChesterBlackbeard to conquer the World
Given the state of some of our courses now, maybe we would be better off running more of our big races on artificial surfaces.
The more I watch this race, the more I get the feeling that the frenetic nature of it is something that Frankel would’ve loved. Sadly, no horse ever went fast enough to test Frankel’s superior talent.
God permitting the fusion of generations and the manipulation of time, my take on it is that Flightline would’ve been a sitting duck had Frankel contested in this race.
“Given the state of some of our courses now, maybe we would be better off running more of our big races on artificial surfaces.”
I’ve never understood why dirt has to look like, well, dirt.
Dye Tapeta green and I’m sure aesthetic resistance to the idea would subside a bit.
I love USA dirt racing and tbh it looks like they don’t overwater their Turf either.
The USA: too many burgers and hot dogs, but they get their racing right.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"He didnt have to go to turf no more than frankel had to go to dirt. But the criteria used to assess greatness by some of you would be considerd absurd in almost every other sport.
Conflating peak ability under ideal conditions on a measly few runs vs achievement is just looking for a rating number. And what other sport would confer hero status to a flash in the pan?
I wouold have retired him also. 100% the right financial call. Maybe he’ll be a great stallion.
SHL
“the criteria used to assess greatness by some of you would be considerd absurd in almost every other sport.”
Someone’s not very good at agreeing to differ!
Game of opinions, fella.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"“What other sport would confer hero status to a flash in the pan?”
As already pointed out, he produced more than one great performance. Certainly two, maybe three.
His career was affected by injuries which explains why he only race six times. But plenty of other top class Flat horses have had a similar number of races.
It looked to me as if his jockey was taking it a bit easy in the last half furlong. Given it was almost certainly going to be his last race, I wish he had pushed him out all the way and tried to shatter the clock.
Game of opinions, yes.
My point was aiming to be more factual about how unusual the criteria we set out is when compared to othet sports.
There is no right or wrong there.
SHL
His career was affected by injuries which explains why he only race six times. But plenty of other top class Flat horses have had a similar number of races.
Not in America. Flightline is getting compared to the likes of Secretariat (21 starts) and Spectacular Bid (30 starts). In 2004 Ghostzapper’s Horse of the Year award was massively controversial at the time because he only made 4 starts in the season but even he managed 11 starts total. 6 starts and done is unprecedented for a top American older horse, let alone the one who’s supposed to be the greatest of all time.
An American dirt racehorse with a racing career of European turf brevity – Robert Sangster, owner of Golden Fleece, might have considered Flightline overraced!
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"American dirt racing leaves me cold if I am honest as it is all on identical flat oval tracks that can be artificially engineered to ensure fast times and play to a certain type of run style and seeing horses finishing at wide distances in a lot of case in slow motion finishes because they have gone too fast early with up until recently seeing jockeys being whip happy giving their mount no time to respond isn’t an enjoyable watch for me.
With that all being said you couldn’t help but be very impressed with the performance although a special shoutout to Life Is Good who made the race by sacrificing himself in trying to actually win the race rather than ride for a place, which is confirmed by the fact that the time clocked by him through 6F was only a fraction slower than the winner of the Dirt Sprint time and by the mile post they clocked a faster time than the dirt mile winner did.
However, quite frankly comparisons to Secretariat are just as absurd as Baaeed being compared to Frankel – you only have to read some of the things Big Red did (both on dirt and turf) to know that Flightline isn’t on his level, for me one could even argue that the totality of his form (whilst visually more impressive) isn’t on a level for him to be compared to another Triple Crown winner in American Pharoah.
Flightline’s last two performances quite clearly put him in the great category and I wouldn’t be inclined to argue with people that say he is an all time great…as you can still be in that category and yet still fall short of doing enough to be classed as the greatest.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.