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You are completely wrong. The bookies as TDK says are mostly lazy sods and price up using the early Betfair markets as their tissue. This means that the backing and laying of small amounts whether by shrewd or clued-up punters overnight and in the morning has a big impact on the early prices.
If bookies are really pricing up based on the small amounts traded on Betfair overnight then there should be huge opportunities for a ‘shrewdie’ such as yourself to take advantage of what effectively amounts to mug-punters making their book.
There are. I’ll give you a perfect example from today. Hel’s Angel 6.20 Beverley, 7/2 in the Post, arguably a bit big even at that, buttons at 4.3/1 overnight on Betfair, plenty of 4-1 this morning, SP won’t be much more than 10/3. IMO, of course.
This is an interesting thread but I’m a bit confused.
Some are saying that the so called smaller BF punters should leave the markets alone overnight and early mornings ( big punters are not going to place large stakes during this period anyway as it would not get matched because of suspicion ) so that the Bookmakers have to make their own tissue and issue their own early prices.
Others are saying that Bookies will not lay early price races to any decent stakes.
So if punters cannot get a decent bet on with the bookies in respect of early price races then it does not make much difference if the BF punters ( only a few BF punters are mugs imo ) place their bets on early and form a tissue.
This is an interesting thread but I’m a bit confused.
Some are saying that the so called smaller BF punters should leave the markets alone overnight and early mornings ( big punters are not going to place large stakes during this period anyway as it would not get matched because of suspicion ) so that the Bookmakers have to make their own tissue and issue their own early prices.
Others are saying that Bookies will not lay early price races to any decent stakes.
So if punters cannot get a decent bet on with the bookies in respect of early price races then it does not make much difference if the BF punters ( only a few BF punters are mugs imo ) place their bets on early and form a tissue.
The key here is that bookmakers won’t lay a decent bet on something which offers an arb on the exchanges, but are more prepared (with exceptions of course) if that opportunity doesn’t exist. Hence the absence of small punters’ stakes would enable both them and the bigger players an opportunity of getting on with the firms.
I don’t know who’s saying you can’t get on at early prices, that’s not my experience. If accounts get restricted you just need people in the shops. Patrick Veitch has just written a book detailing how he won £10 million betting mostly at early prices.
I don’t know who’s saying you can’t get on at early prices, that’s not my experience. If accounts get restricted you just need people in the shops. Patrick Veitch has just written a book detailing how he won £10 million betting mostly at early prices.
I totally agree. Except where getting on with Hills is concerned
I do not know why you don’t have problems Carvillshill but I have read lots of comments ( including on this forum ) about good punters having problems getting any decent bets on with the bookmakers and this thread included an article which stated the following –
The policy of squeezing out winners is not new, but it is acknowledged across the industry that, of late, there has been increased stifling of successful accounts.
All the familiar names — Paddy Power, Ladbrokes, William Hill, Boylesports, Victor Chandler and the smaller firms — restrict winning accounts to varying degrees. And the racing media, silenced by sponsorship, all but ignores it.Patrick Veitch is exceptional and few have his resources. I’m talking about good ordinary punters.
I didn’t say I don’t have problems- you obviously haven’t been reading the forum in the past few weeks and months- this subject has been well covered. What I said was that it’s untrue to say that you can’t get decent amounts on at early prices. The more successful you are, the more effort this takes however.
I am used to gamble on Betfair, and it was probably a bad idea I went to have a few bets on the High Street. I went to Betfred. I was horrified every time I was placing a bet I had the impression of being ripped off. Dreadful odds. 17 runners Hcp, odds were like 3/1 4/1 5/1 7/1 7/1 8/1 10 12 12 12 14 14/1 16/1 16/1 20/1 25/1 25/1 33/1 50/1 sthing like that… On betfair all these would have been doubled….. !!! For sure. So, I am know nothing about odd-compiling but I can tell that the punters are BEING RIPPED OFF. JUST NOT EVEN ATTRACTIVE. IF THEY DONT OFFER MORE GENEROUS ODDS I HOPE THEY LL BE DESERTED FOR A WHILE SO THAT THEY CAN THINK ABOUT IT… it’s hard enough to pick a winner isn’t it ?
Best of Luck to you all still and happy puntingYes Arsene – some punters are being ripped off by the bookmakers and have been for years. I would probably give up betting if it wasn’t for BF.
There is nothing wrong with BF members getting their bets on early with their prices and I hope they continue. Good and successful punters will not have a problem with it.
I am used to gamble on Betfair, and it was probably a bad idea I went to have a few bets on the High Street. I went to Betfred. I was horrified every time I was placing a bet I had the impression of being ripped off. Dreadful odds. 17 runners Hcp, odds were like 3/1 4/1 5/1 7/1 7/1 8/1 10 12 12 12 14 14/1 16/1 16/1 20/1 25/1 25/1 33/1 50/1 sthing like that… On betfair all these would have been doubled….. !!! For sure. So, I am know nothing about odd-compiling but I can tell that the punters are BEING RIPPED OFF. JUST NOT EVEN ATTRACTIVE. IF THEY DONT OFFER MORE GENEROUS ODDS I HOPE THEY LL BE DESERTED FOR A WHILE SO THAT THEY CAN THINK ABOUT IT… it’s hard enough to pick a winner isn’t it ?
Best of Luck to you all still and happy puntingArsene – the punters may well be being "ripped off" by the UK bookies but it’s not nearly as bad as in France.
Was at the Grand Steeplechase on Sunday and backed the winner of the Ferdinand Dufaure, went off at 6.7, the screens were showing 6.7 when the horse was in the winners enclosure. Result came through and the final dividend was 5.10. The same happened in the Prix De Longchamp, final show 2.5, actual dividend 2.2. Where ever you are in the world someone will be ripping you off.
Betfair will take a deduction factor on horses priced over 14/1 – which you won’t get with the regular bookmakers, or indeed horses priced over 10/1 in some cases, now will you get charged commission.
Betfair SP 41% better. Almost £450 grand better off to a tenner level stake since it started.
And don’t give me the "you cant get a decent bet on" claptrap. Increase your turnover on smaller stakes, same difference.
You know it makes sense.
Only a halfwit would knowingly bet decent money at Betfair SP. I shouldn’t need to explain why.
And don’t give me the "you cant get a decent bet on" claptrap. Increase your turnover on smaller stakes, same difference.
Exactly ….but some punters are not savvy enough to realise this.
Increase your turnover on smaller stakes, same difference.
You didn’t read that bit , Rory?
In addition plenty of people bet to smaller stakes, which has been pointed out numerous times on this thread already
Exactly ….but some punters are not savvy enough to realise this.
Thank you Swallow. Some of them not a million miles away
.. racing as a betting medium changes all of the time and there are more things to get over than getting accounts closed out.
The Premium Tax from Betfair was a bit of a bombshell, retrospective, incalculable, unfair and all that. Anyone who is smart enough to get caught by it, will be smart enough not to pay it in the future.
There doesn’t seem to be a lot of mileage in moaning.
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