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Black Caviar 25 from 25

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  • #436240
    Avatar photoJollyp
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 540

    He may get stage fright when he spots who it is Hammy :wink:

    :lol:

    And he may need a step ladder Hammy!

    #436317
    OzyWizard
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    Frankel got out before he was shamed by the Ozy Champ. :D

    #436330
    Avatar photoHimself
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    • Total Posts 3777

    An interesting aside :

    Gary Crispe, Australia’s Timeform racing expert was asked by an Aussie newspaper, using Timeform ratings, to set up a fictional race between Black Caviar and other past Australian champions. How do they compare and who would win over the chosen optimum distance of 1400 metres at Randwick, they wanted to know.

    The horses chosen to take BC on were Vain, Phar Lap, Bernborough, Manikato, Chatam, Kingstown Town, Peter Pan, Todman and Tulloch.

    Crispe said : " Using Timeform ratings, it gave us the chance to re-assess great Australian champions between 1930-1950, which had never been done before in Australia, although Timeform UK had already assessed some of Australia’s early champions, so the job for the Australian Timeform handicappers was to re-examine and update that work and cross reference it against our current framework for Australian thoroughbreds in the global Timeform ratings handicap. "Following this process the immortal Phar Lap was awarded a Timeform rating of 141, Bernborough 138 and Peter Pan 137.

    Phar Lap is now the highest ever Timeform-rated horse to race in Australia, followed by Bernborough and Tulloch, both on 138. Kingston Town and Peter Pan are at 137 and Black Caviar, unbeaten in 24 races, is at 136, the only mare in the top 10 list, joining Vain and Todman with that rating.

    So, the stage is set for the ‘Greatest (* Australian ) Race Ever’. And what a race it would be …

    Given their usual racing patterns, Manikato and Vain shared the early lead, with Black Caviar and Todman immediately behind the front-runners.

    The pace was genuine and the field compact as the 10 greats rounded the home turn at Royal Randwick and sprinted up the rise. This is where Black Caviar made her move, wresting the lead.
    "Under standard weight for age, Black Caviar receives a 4lb weight allowance allowing her to effectively run to (a Timeform rating of) 140," Crispe explained.

    "In our match race, Black Caviar was set to win the race until Phar Lap descended late, as he had done many times, to win by a margin of just a neck.

    "Tulloch and Bernborough dead-heated for third with Kingston Town and Peter Pan less than a length-and-a-half behind Phar Lap."

    :shock:

    Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning

    #436355
    Avatar photoGhost of Rob V
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    • Total Posts 1637

    How can they beat her?

    Bring Frankel out of retirement :P

    Well 14 out 15 would still be a good effort :P

    Though 25 from 26 would seem far more likely :P

    #436379
    Avatar photoJollyp
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    As for having a race between Phar Lap ,Black Caviar,etc ,etc it is ridiculous.More so the result! Phar Lap had 9 starts at 7f or less was unplaced 7 times,won a maiden and a Group 1 over 7f.I would say most horses included in the race would have beaten Phar Lap over 7f.Horses going back a bit competed in a drug era,now you can’t give a horse anything to help them along or get rid of heat and swelling. That is like comparing Black Caviar to Frankel,one is a last start 10f winner the other has won the best 5f Group 1 in the world 3 times running,has won 11 Group 1’s at 6f.Seeing as Frankel didn’t run under 7f there is absolutely no evidence to say he would get near her over 5 or 6f,considering the horse is a miler/10f horse.Same if Black Caviar raced over a mile,she has never before so there is no evidence to say she would get near Frankel over a mile.

    #436422
    Avatar photoGhost of Rob V
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    • Total Posts 1637

    I don’t think it would’ve took Frankel much to slip back into headstrong mode and make his mark as a sprinter if he’d have gone down that alternative path. I think his natural raw power and matching aggression to dominate at 5F would have been a very hostile encounter for any horse to handle.

    In all honesty with hand on heart, I think the Frankel vs Black Caviar contest, for me, would’ve been the ultimate clash-of-the-titans. All pure fantasy now though :wink:

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