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I gonored that part of your post TAPK I actually jut shook my head and thought "Geezus where does he get these ideas from"
A couple of Champion Hurdle horsesspring to mind, Birds Nest and Harchibald. Those were horses with a very high cruising speed who when racing in the highest class came under pressure, came off the bridle and found disappointingly very little. That is what you refer to as a Bridle Horse
Hurricane Fly is a totally different type of animal to either of them. He has yet to prove he can race at Champion Hurdle pace but he has come of the bridle in every race I have seen him run in when asked to quicken. He just takes off and the response to date has been electrifying.
He is a flashy individual and a lot of horses like him when stepped up in class find the pace that bit too fast for them. They take so much out of themselves just keeing up they dont have the energy left when the time come to accelerate like they normall do. Simply speaking they get outclassed.
Not trying to be funny but you just saw it happen yesterday with The Ascot Gold Cup Patkai. He won the Sagaro Stakes with a fantastic looking burst of speed and all of a sudden he was fav for the big one.
When he stepped up in class and came up against a real Gold Cup horse he ran the same sort of race, his acceleration was still evident but not enough to beat a real top class animal.
Punters fall for this time and time again and Hurricane Fly supporters could find themself in the same boat. Personally I think he’ll come through and win some real good races but I still think that Binocular combination of being a good traveller, a very fast jumper and his decent turn of foot will prove too much for HF to handle when they meet.
Personally I think he’ll come through and win some real good races but I still think that Binocular combination of being a good traveller, a very fast jumper and his decent turn of foot will prove too much for HF to handle when they meet.
My hole, it will.
TAPK, there is rather a large difference between a horse never having had to come off the bridle to win, and labelling him "too much of a bridle horse".
Celestial Halo has no turn of foot, and would have to use his stamina to try and blight the speed of the opposition in a Champion Hurdle. He would get absoilutely mullered for pace, if his jockey tried hold-up tactics at the Festival.
I have lost count how many times i have seen a "Bridle" horses bubble burst when he is asked to battle! I can see it happening with the Hurricane
I"m afraid! And by the way i am still a big fan of the horse, i just think Celestial ticks all my boxes again! Just like he did this year, when there were many on here who didn"t think he was good enough!!I gonored that part of your post TAPK I actually jut shook my head and thought "Geezus where does he get these ideas from"
Fist, i am amazing, you know that!
He is a flashy individual and a lot of horses like him when stepped up in class find the pace that bit too fast for them. They take so much out of themselves just keeing up they dont have the energy left when the time come to accelerate like they normall do. Simply speaking they get outclassed.
Interesting analogy! i would agree with that!
I have lost count how many times i have seen a "Bridle" horses bubble burst when he is asked to battle! I can see it happening with the Hurricane
I"m afraid! And by the way i am still a big fan of the horse, i just think Celestial ticks all my boxes again! Just like he did this year,when there were many on here who didn"t think he was good enough!!
But he wasn’t good enough, Punjabi is the Champion Hurdler isn’t he??
Hurricane Fly a bridle horse?? He won’t need to come off the bridle to beat Celestial Halo next year.
Well guys I bet Bin last season,one of my only blots in a very successful Chelt. There are a lot of contenders this season for the Crown,but the one I would be laying is Celestial at this stage. Not good enough I am afraid. Hell of a job to choose amongst the others and intriguing which race they will choose. Cant see them all going for the crown. HF,Solwhit,Bin,Punjabi,et al.?
As mentioned before, I am on fence about this.
A question I have for those who do consider Ellis a "real" Champion is this:
Do you also consider Ernie Terrell to be a "real" champion?I honestly can’t see what could beat Hurricane Fly in the Champion Hurdle next year.
If they go a lightning gallop like they did this year, then he will outstay everything else. He beat Grivette over 2m 3 1/2f on heavy ground.
If they go a slow pace he will put them to the sword just as easily. This horse has it all. He can quicken from a slow pace, quicken from a fast pace, win in a battle.
He goes on heavy just as well as on good ground. If Ruby rides Celestial Halo instead of this fellow, given that they both turn up 100% on the day, I’ll eat my hat.
Wouldn’t mind Paul Townend riding him either though.
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It’s never easy to see what can beat horses like Hurricane Fly but many many horses have been thought good enough to win and failed.
The Champion Hurdle is not like any other race. Very often I have heard the remark "You need to be 110% fit just to run in it" The gallop, sudden changes in pace and the track itself have found out some very good horses in the past.
Saying Hurricane Fly can go from Novice to Champion Hurdle and be just as effective is one thing doing it is entirly different.
The firts 4 Champion Hurdles I saw were won by Saucy Kit 100/6 Kirriemuir 50/1 Magic Court 100/6 and Salmon Spray who beat the unbeatable in the minds of many Flyingbolt. Many favs and fancied horses failed to do what the pinters expect Hurricane Fly to do.
Some great novices who won either the Triumph or the Supreme Novices, like Black Ice, Coral Diver, Boxer,Attivo, Connaught Ranger, Pollardstown, First Bout, Detroit City, Chorus, Bannow Rambler and Brown’s Gazzette were all at one time or another strong fancies to go on and win the race.
Personally I think he will take some beating and a live danger to Binocular but until he steps up and takes on the big boys he is no more than that.
Hate to rock your boat but beating a stayer like Grivette, way back then gives no indication that he could even go the pace in a champion hurdle let alone win one. Mind you the secret is not going the pace but finding something off the pace that is the downfall of most speed horses.
Look at Binocular himself…he was never out of a canter at Ascot and quicked with ease but couldn’t find enough toe to get to them in the Champion Hurdle. He”ll be a much stronger horse this year, AP knows what he has to do to win this time and on all known form he’s still the one they all have to beat.
I’d rather back a horse I know can handle the races requirments than back one I hope can.
I’d rather back a horse I know can handle the races requirments than back one I hope can.
I’d rather back a horse who has stacks of potential, than one who has found at least one too good in two races over C&D. Regardless, you’ve already backed Hurricane Fly at "a big price", so you have nowt to worry about.
This time last year you were saying "McCoy will know better how to ride Binocular", yet the knowledge did him no favours in the most recent Champion Hurdle. You might just want to entertain the
possibility
that Binocular isn’t suited by the undulating nature of the track, or that he gets found out for stamina coming up the hill.
The 2009 Champion Hurdle was far from being a vintage offering, and as I’ve said before, a high-class novice does not have to make an inordinate amount of improvement to put himself right into the picture for 2010.
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Bonocular wasn’t found out for stamina in the Champion Hurdle he was the fastest finisher of the 3. It was the fact they thought he might not stay that got him beat.
Don’t assume for 1 minute that running in a 2m3f race round Autiel guarantees you that Hurricane Fly will be able to produce a turn of foot at the end of 2 miles at Chelters. The pace they go at Cheltenham is not a stroll round Autiel.
Ok Hurricane Fly did win the Gras Savoye Grade 3 at a longer trip but when it really mattered in the Grade 1 Prix Alain du Breil he was well and truly put in his place and failed to quicken.
To say he is somekind of certainty when in truth he beat Donna’s Palm 1/2 length, Go Native who stopped like shot and in his final run his own decent but moderate stable companion is nuts. Go Native had beaten him 27 lengths at Cheltenham and again ran miles below that form.
Compare that to taking on horses like Binocular and co and your in a differnet hemosphere.
What you have in Hurricane Fly is a horse who has the potential to improve and become a strong contender for the Champion Hurdle. Visually he looks the part I agree 100% but I’m still on the fence with him and very much in Binocular’s Camp who is after all only 5 year old and could improve a stone from last year for all we know.
As far as JP buying young hurdlers is concerned…….what’s new?
Compare that to taking on horses like Binocular and co and your in a differnet hemosphere.
It’s statements like this will prove your undoing, Fist.
Taking on "Binocular and co" is not entering the "different hemisphere" (sic) that you suggest. As I have already pointed out on several occassions, on any rational interpretation of Hurricane Fly’s form, he has but a mere handful of lbs to find to be competitive.
I look forward to serving your ass to you, when HF romps home on the steel next March.
Compare that to taking on horses like Binocular and co and your in a differnet hemosphere.
It’s statements like this will prove your undoing, Fist.
Taking on "Binocular and co" is not entering the "different hemisphere" (sic) that you suggest. As I have already pointed out on several occassions, on any rational interpretation of Hurricane Fly’s form, he has but a mere handful of lbs to find to be competitive.
I look forward to serving your ass to you, when HF romps home on the steel next March.
Agreed. A line through Quevega leaves HF with only a few lbs to find to be up there with the top hurdlers. The Champion was a serious consideration for him last year even as a novice before he had his setback. Not all would agree, but I think he’d have been more than up to it even last year.
I’m a big fan of Binocular too (backed him to win last season’s Champion) but I think Grassy could be right in saying that you might have a bit too much faith in him Fist. He’s failed twice at Cheltenham already. Last year he was beaten by a horse in Celestial Halo who he’d previously treated with contempt at both Aintree and Ascot. This suggests to me anyway that Cheltenham simply isn’t going to be his track. Maybe Cheltenham won’t be HF’s track either but he’s already handled the undulations of Punchestown and until we get evidence that he won’t like Cheltenham, I’ll continue to support him.
To say he is somekind of certainty when in truth he beat Donna’s Palm 1/2 length
HF may have only beat Donnas Palm half a length in the Royal Bond but that race was run at a farcical pace. It was also HF’s seasonal reappearance and Donnas Palm had the advantage of race fitness. Using Donnas Palm’s subsequent form as a stick to beat HF with is unwise IMO. Noel Meade has one or two novices every year who burst onto the scene early on in October/November carrying all before them before their form tails off after Christmas. Donnas Palm, Pandorama, Sweet Wake, Mr Nosie, Iktitaf were all in the same boat.
Interesting times ahead in the Autumn. I wonder what race Willie will bring HF back in? The Morgiana would be the obvious one but there are races at both Punchestown and Down Royal before that for second season novices.
Whets the appetite for the proper racing. This flat lark seems to go on forever!
Grasshopper and Imperial Call have fallen Hook line and Sinker for Hurricane fly winning the Champion hurdle and yet he has still to run against a
Celestial Halo
,Punjabi or Binocular! TAPK cant wait until the Hurricane goes 2/1 or less,it will be my lay of the season! Just like Binocular was last year!
Grasshopper and Imperial Call have fallen Hook line and Sinker for Hurricane fly winning the Champion hurdle and yet he has still to run against a
Celestial Halo
,Punjabi or Binocular! TAPK cant wait until the Hurricane goes 2/1 or less,it will be my lay of the season! Just like Binocular was last year!
Sure maybe Jonjo will run that Albertas Run yoke in the Champion Hurdle next year – Willie might as well leave HF in his box down in Carlow if he does and wait for Punchestown
Grasshopper and Imperial Call have fallen Hook line and Sinker for Hurricane fly winning the Champion hurdle and yet he has still to run against a
Celestial Halo
,Punjabi or Binocular!
At least I know what race my selection will be going for. Just you keep pressing-up on Mikael for the RSA Chase, Mr King
TAPK cant wait until the Hurricane goes 2/1 or less,it will be my lay of the season! Just like Binocular was last year!
Of course….you were very strong on Jered in last year’s Champion Hurdle, as I recall. Can’t win them all I suppose, eh?
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