- This topic has 48 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 11 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Why is there this constant obsession that you have to be "versatile" to be a true champion ?
If you are a "great" then you are simply "great".
One can be simply good at a very many disciplines, and thereby, be versatile.
Would you expect a great artist to be a good boxer before he was rated a true champion ?
Its nonsense.I agree entirely, it’s ridiculous. If Sprinter Sacre defeats all before him this season and lands the Queen Mother, then continues in the same vein for the new couple of years, will he need to have a tilt at the Gold Cup in order to be considered great? No, of course not. Ok, of the big four Cheltenham races, the World Hurdle is rightfully regarded as the ‘weakest’, but that doesn’t make it weak.
Hopefully, if Big Buck’s runs in the Fixed Brush and wins, then goes on to fulfil his half-decade domination of staying hurdles he will begin to receive the recognition he truly deserves from all corners.
Clearly he needs to come to America and run in the Iroquois/Lonesome Glory/Grand National Hurdle/Colonial Cup.
As a racecourse newbury is going downhill and the prize money for the long distance hurdle is pathetic so I think the big bucks haydock story is a wheeze to get Newbury to put their hands in their pockets and stump up more money
Stupid idea, handicap race over novelty hurdles.
Would Sir Henry contemplate it if he were training BB? Of course not.
A handicap race introduces the opinions of the handicapper so the end result is partly based on the talent of the respective horses and partly on the opinions. If BB wins doesn’t mean he’s great, if he loses doesn’t mean he’s not. However, it might well sour him and put an end to his fantastic story which would be a shame for the horse and the sport.
There is a huge difference in prestige, quality and competitiveness btween 3-mile hurdling and chasing. If BB was with any other trainer we might know if he was a "great." Being top of the fourth division is still the fourth division.
I have the same concerns with Sprinter Sacre, who looks like a phenomenon, but if kept to 2 miles because NH has other 3-mile contenders, may never reach his potentialHypothetically , if connections knew that Sprinter Sacre did not stay 3 miles, but over the next few years , he totally dominates the 2 mile division, this in my view, does not stop him being a great. It simply means that he didn’t stay 3 miles plus. So what ?. A lesser animal may be more versatile and capable of winning good races over say 16 furlongs up to 28 furlongs. That does not mean that the latter is a great horse, but simply that is more versatile.
"There is a huge difference in prestige, quality and competitiveness between 3-mile hurdling and chasing."
Although I have been generally slaughtered, I stand by my point, which is illustrated in the above quotation from the poster "betfair" perfectly. Hurdling is generally seen as preparation for Chasing is it not?
I disagree about the two mile chasers mind you – before the stupid upgrading of the Rynair, the QMCC was the equal of the CGC.
Can’t agree, Gold Cup is THE ultimate test of the national hunt racehorse. Always felt a bit cheated that Moscow Flyer was never given a shot.
Can’t agree, Gold Cup is THE ultimate test of the national hunt racehorse. Always felt a bit cheated that Moscow Flyer was never given a shot.
I know what you mean, I’ve never forgiven Major Hern for not running Dayjur in the Derby!
Moscow Flyer never ran beyond 2 1/2 miles in his career so why feel cheated that he was never asked to run over nearly 1 mile further at Cheltenham??
Moscow Flyer stayed 2 + 1/2 mile really well over fences, won over 2
+ 1/2 on soft over hurdles. Of course maybe the trainer felt he wouldn’t stay. Also that was the golden age of 2-mile chasers, when we had 3 real top-class horses who confirmed their ability with weight-carrying performances; usually it is much less competitive.The Flyer was the best of the three, but didn’t prove it carrying burdens in handicaps?
Azertyuiop and The Chief’s handicap performances were totally thrilling mind you. Azertyuiop getting touched off by Isio was a bit of a heartbreaker wasn’t it.
Trying and failing can ruin a legacy.
David Haye was/is the greatest Cruiser weight (Staying Hurdler) on the planet right now (Evander Holyfield being too old!), but winning Cruiserweight World title fights (World Hurdle) earns a boxer nothing in comparison to the riches that await a Heavyweight World champion (Gold Cup).
Had he stuck to the Cruiserweight division theres a good chance he could have defended the unified title for a very long time (5 World Hurdles). But the glory and riches are in the heavyweight division where he is probably just a top 10 fighter. But credit has to be given for giving it a go.
Most people will probably remember David Haye as the man schooled by a Klitschko, who moaned about his little toe, but credit has to go to him for at least stepping up and trying to mix it with the big boys. And he was World Heavy Weight Champion.
The magnificent Baracouda did something very similar off a mark of 170 back in 2004 at Sandown over an inadequate distance no less.
I wonder whether his omission from this thread is a reflection of the impact that Sandown race had on his legacy, or rather that for whatever Big Bucks has achieved so far, it still isn’t enough.
I think Baracouda’s questionable attitude and lesser longevity stain our reflections on his ability.
Being beaten by Iris’s Gift, Inglis Drever and My Way De Solzen when past his best are the more recent memories. Due to the recency effect, these are the memories which remain most vividly.
Wasn’t he a great horse though? Running down Mr Cool in the Long Walk after giving him such a start was incredible.
Big Bucks is by far the greatest staying hurdler we’ve ever seen. Baracouda wasn’t helped by a hopeless jockey on board for most of his races but I don’t think he comes anywhere close to BB for consistency. I don’t think a novelty race at Haydock will really appeal to connections though. Personally I’d love to see them have a crack at the Queen Alexandra at Royal Ascot but it won’t ever happen. Considering so many odds and sods have won that race over the years I don’t see why BB couldn’t take it with ease.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.