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After reading a load of nieve rubbish on this thread I feel compelled to jump to Punter’s defense.
I am a full time gambler who specializes in the a/w, and as such I study every race in detail. I am also at times aware of larceny taking place. In my honest opinion, the horse was a definite non-trier, and was never expected to win. The tactics employed just helped to ensure that the horse lost.
Unlike many others I certainly didn’t consider the favourite to be an easy winner, but I would definitely have expected a much better run than occurred.<br>Cheating happens every single day on the a/w and personally I feel Punter should be congratulated for making us all aware of it BEFORE the race !!
How he can be a sore loser BEFORE the race is beyond me. As for discussing Betfair so much I am in total agreement with Daylight …….. do it on your own forum guys !!  :cool:
well done punter for trying to warn people <br>BEFORE the race that in your opiniun the vibes were not good<br>i was in the company off some knowledgeable punters/bookies saturday and they were all picking up the same vibes
The tactics the horse used were the most common tactics that the horse has used – front running. For pity’s sake the horse’s press association comments refer to him as being "driven". There was no "held up in rear, short of room, never placed to challenge" in his running comments which was what punter in fact suggested before the race. The only thing punter predicted correctly about the way the race would pan out was that the horse would get beat. Nothing strange in that – horses with inferior last time out form to the majority of their opponents have an uncanny knack of getting beat.
The horse’s connections put up a gigantic red flag for every punter to see by dropping him to selling company last time suggesting that the horse was nowhere near the force he was. This was confirmed beyond reasonable doubt by his performance. he beat the 34 rated Tong Ice by 3 lengths at level weights, on old form he was entitled to beat that horse by over 20 lengths.
Do you think that maybe, just maybe, punters had cottoned on to the fact that the horse was now obviously a shadow of his former self and that this was the reason they were keen to lay him at his joke price.
I would suggest that anyone that has to resort to wild theories of larceny to explain this horses replication of his last run doesn’t understand the game quite as well as they let on.
You all thought he was a non-trier, I say he is in terminal decline. Only time will tell of course but I would certainly bet against him ever reproducing 80 rated form again.
Sorry master I haven’t. I’m not at the office on weekends, I will check on Monday and get back to you.
Whilst your there could you also ask why Ben doesn’t bother to answer his emails any more?
Pewter,
Part of the deal with Flutter was that if the forum referred any new accounts via the affiliate banner then the forum recieves 2% of the 5% commission from the fee taken by Flutter (later brought by Betfair).<br>This deal was to run the entire LIFETIME of that refferred member’s account, so after refferring many new accounts to Flutter and having never recieving a penny from them, I know they owed me money! But it gets worse as these Flutter accounts were automaticially transfered to become Betfair accounts so Flutter isn’t actually dead just operating under a different disguise.
So as Flutter isn’t actually dead I feel that Betfair actually owe me the Flutter referrals & the now Betfair referrals which as you can imagine is serious money.
This is a good thread. I’m surprised nobody has picked up on the Young Devereux mention. Betfair have replied on this, to the tune that they are satisfied if connections or stable staff lay ante-post horses they know won’t run. There seems to be a suspicion that they are also happy for connections to stop horses ?
Glenn, what would Betfair do if BHB asked for betting records, including people involved ?
In my view, Betfair need to wise up over this issue. Otherwise, they will kill a business with enormous potential.
Glenn ……..
Not letting you get away with your comments quite so easily ……. I assume you do actually have some insights a little bit deeper than looking at Official Ratings ?
Frontrunning at anything beyond sprint distances is totally lunacy on the new polytrack surface unless a graveyard pace is able to be dictated. Therefore one of the easiest ways to fool the uninitiated into believing a horse is trying is to front run. Your other point is that the horse had beaten an awful oppenent last time out. If you had bothered to watch the video of that race properly I am sure you would note that Tong Ice was the recipiant of a ‘good trip’ in that race, and ran a lifetime best piece of form. Also if you kept decent speed figures, which I do and Punter has proven that he does, you would have known that the horse was a worthy favourite on paper and not quite the dog that you obviously believe it to be.
I am sure that due to your position at Betfair you would like to attack anyone who chooses to declare that the sport is another other than squeaky clean. Well I make money partly from acting on inside information and in my opinion cheating goes on practically every day on the a/w.
Nick
Nick – You seem to use a lot of American terms in your arguments so I assume you are familiar with the US literature. I suggest you dig out your copy of betting thoroughbreds and re-read the chapter ‘what’s he doing in today’s race’. The horse has almost certainly suffered physical problems recently hence the fact that he was entered in a seller. He may have been top on most speed ratings on the basis of his pre-seller races but my point is that you should ignore these now and base your assesments on his speed rating in that seller. Surely you didn’t make him a short priced fav on that?
It’s worth noting that far more money was traded on Platinum Duke the day he won (especially in the morning) than yesterday when he lost. Lots of people had seen the negative class drop and wanted to be against him. The time before last it didn’t work out for them, yesterday it did. Why do you assume that because he front ran he wasn’t trying. The horse usually front runs. Doesn’t that alone explain why so many people wanted to lay him, from an honest interpretation of the form book, on his Lingfield debut?
For what it’s worth I do think there is a fair amount of larceny on the all-weather – particularly in sellers/claimers it’s just that in this instance there are far more plausible explanations for the opposition to the horse.
Istabraq unplaced – The case of Young Devereaux was widely discussed on the betfair forum at the time and I don’t remember much sympathy for those who took prices too good to be true about a horse that had been mentioned in the press all week as an uncertain starter. It doesn’t always work against the backer. Last year people were laying Istabraq @4/1 based on false rumours of his demise on this very forum. If Cheltenham would have gone ahead they would have had tremendous value.
Daylight – I have no idea about betfair affiliate schemes let alone flutter’s. I will ask Ben to get in touch when I see him on Monday.
No need to re-read that chapter Glenn, I have read it many times before. I can definitely see where you are coming from with your arguament and it also tallies with some of Joe Takach’s writing (who I respect hugely). However, I would honestly think that in this case the horse was trying to lose by forcing the early pace, to deliberately ‘stiff’ the horse on a track which we both agree doesn’t exactly favour thoses tactics over the race distance. Either or both of us could be correct to some degree, but I was informed by a rails bookmaker that the horse was ‘not-off’ and I do find it strange that the opposition to the horse on Betfair was so early and so strong.
Nick ÂÂÂ
Glenn – Platinum Duke’s two wins came when he "chased" or "tracked" the leaders. In Saturday’s Lingfield race he led after two furlongs and faded. Platinum Duke is usually up with the pace, but when he wins, he hasn’t led so early on in a race as he did on Saturday.
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