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I presume most of Mike’s betting is going to be just before the off, when he knows (pretty much) what the price will be. Therefore Mike can get the "value" (as he sees it). Mike is obviously very good at finding LATE value, so SHOULD concentrate on that area. I, on the other hand – have never been as good at finding LATE value (though getting better) so concentrate on trying to find EARLY Value. Which is why I said Mikes way is the "antithesis of my own".
I don’t think there’s two radically different methods in operation here. The analysis of a race may be different, but that’s irrelevant – if you gave two punters the exact same tools they will more than likely draw different conclusions anyway.
Self-evidently all that matters is betting at a value price (who knew?!), where and when you do that is moot. I’m not
seeking
to be a ‘late-value getter’ – in an ideal world I would like to bet at BOG first thing in the morning but two things prevent that. Firstly, my form-study period is going to be from around 8.00am to 1.00pm with a break or two, so I just wouldn’t be ready; and secondly of course, I’m informed that if I was winning I would be cut off at the knees. I could get round the first problem by cancelling all social events and studying every evening but I’m of the belief that work should serve me not the other way round.
I backed two winners yesterday, one of which beat the 5-1 SP and 11-2 BOG considerably, whilst the other only paid the same as the 9-4 SP as opposed to 7-2 BOG (with 15p R4). Checking on all the losers I backed, most would have held their own compared to BOG but they were all quite big prices which is very much BFSP’s ‘territory’. All the other (limited) research I’ve done says that on face value BOG will consistently outperform BFSP/SP and non-BOG early prices, but what good are fairytale odds that one cannot get on at?
Mike
Betting has been my main source of income for some time, but my father’s retirement does mean the tax man needs to be informed! Any advice on that department Mike?
I’ve bowed out of NI Class 2 under advisement as I am in effect retired from tax year 2013-14 onwards. You do have up to six years from the end of the tax year in which you ceased making regular contributions to make up any shortfall even if this falls into your retirement age itself.
I have a long-term IFA/accountant who I trust implicitly as I have had a strange mix of incomes over the years. I’ve told him of my plans and he said: keep proper records but – as things stand – there’s nothing to declare.
However, taking my advice on your finances is like taking Derek Thompson’s on your betting. You need to speak to a professional Ginge as everyone’s circumstances are different.
Mike
I’m not sure whether the recent legal enforceability of gambling debt has altered the tax status of gambling profit; Wit will know I’m sure
of itself the introduction of legal enforceability hasn’t altered the tax position on wagering on the horses – whether for (still untaxed) punters or (still taxed) bookies.
HMRC staff manual on the subject:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/BIM22000.htm
mind you, some of HMRC’s seemingly more dated instructions there could be a bit uncomfortable for those punters who profile themselves as exchange professionals, eg:
‘BIM22018 – An organised activity to make profits out of the gambling public will normally amount to trading………..They are not mere punters. They are carrying on an activity where the odds are in their favour.’
so possibly less provocative to present oneself as a ‘holistic enthusiastic amateur’
Thanks for that Wit
Rather a lot of 19th – early 20th century precedent isn’t there? Presumably they’re just examples and not the only cases from which the laws were set
The enthusiastic amateur whether holistic, empiric, rational or religious has little to worry about
Out of sight, out of mind Mr Taxman
I think the problem with Mr Taxman might be to convince him the money is earnt by investing in horses and not investing in something dishonest.
Value Is EverythingIts not the honesty or the legality of income sources that concern Mr Taxman – just whether they are sources that fall within the Schedules to the Taxes Acts.
That said, never do an interview with Mr Taxman – or if you do, never do it elsewhere than on neutral ground and with an experienced tax professional by your side:
Interested to read the blog, Betlarge.
I picked four winners today at Ascot, but only backed one. The one with the smallest price.
I will appreciate a how-to guide to keeping sanity and temper.
Did you have Excellent Guest? Did anyone?
Interested to read the blog, Betlarge.
I picked four winners today at Ascot, but only backed one. The one with the smallest price.
I will appreciate a how-to guide to keeping sanity and temper.
Did you have Excellent Guest? Did anyone?
I am sure there will be 1 or 2 who religiously back Tom Queally and will have had a good day. Well done to them
Mike, how goes it so far?
Well, slowly at the moment Joe. Metaphorically speaking, whilst I was hoping to be on a lavish round-the-world-cruise with lobster at the Captain’s table, I am in effect very much still on a rain-lashed beach in Skegness wearing a pack-a-mac. About 2pts down so far but I’ve not got the feel that things have really ‘started’ yet.
I actually stopped for a couple of days last week due to those thunderstorms that kept turning up. Steady summer showers are no problem, but really heavy downpours are a pain. The going was changing rapidly everywhere and predictably it produced a glut of non-runners many of them really late which is especially problematical for the way I bet (none of that punter-friendly R4!). Knackers my analysis too.
I’m only really betting on Flat turf racing and unusually there’s been days where that’s thin on the ground. Just one meeting today and still a number of AW/Jumps meetings going on – four out of five on Wednesday.
Hopefully have something more interesting to report in a couple of weeks, although my highlight to date was backing the disgracefully lucky winner-by-a-nose Prairie Ranger at Newbury on Friday, his main rival having the race at his mercy before deciding to head towards the car park (the Doncaster car park that is…).
Mike
Betting has been my main sourse of income for some time, but my father’s retirement does mean the tax man needs to be informed! Any advice on that
I suggest you get an accountant to sort out your tax affairs on the winding-up of your business as there’s likely to be asset disposal, liability offset and intangible ‘goodwill’ matters to consider
I’d also suggest you maintain your self-employed status by continuing to pay Class 2 National Insurance contributions as you need
35
years’ (I think) payment to qualify for the full state pension
As for gambling profit, I assume this still doesn’t need to be declared to the Revenue, though do keep all betting records in case they want proof your income is solely from gambling
I’m not sure whether the recent legal enforceability of gambling debt has altered the tax status of gambling profit; Wit will know I’m sure
Right now you need
30
years of National Insurace contributions for a full State Pension Drone, although the Government are thinking of increasing that figure. I have exactly 30 years so am ok (at the moment). If it does go up I’d need to find out whether it is worth me making voluntary contributions, or just have a reduction in my State Pension when officially retiring.
When working as a carpet fitter it was through my father’s business, so I’ve never been "self-employed". HMRC tell me unless I get paid work as a tipster or for my knowledge (what there is of it) then I do not need to become self-employed.
Any profit made by the actual betting has nothing to do with HMRC (whether backing or laying, with bookmaers or exchanges) because it is not taxable. Although it is wise to keep a rough record/proof of where the profit is made, just in case they want to check up that I am living on money gained legally (ie not criminal activity). However, this record does not need to be exact and is primarily for my benifit/peace of mind. It does not need to be submitted/declared to them.
Value Is EverythingWhen working as a carpet fitter it was through my father’s business, so I’ve never been "self-employed". HMRC tell me unless I get paid work as a tipster or for my knowledge (what there is of it) then I do not need to become self-employed.
An employee who’s lost his job then? Perhaps you should sign on the rock ‘n’ roll as it would appear that pros, semi-pros and dilettantes alike could do with it right now
Do you have a private pension scheme Ginger? If so it may be worth relying on that rather than subbing the state scheme with Class 2 NI
Anyway, I remain of the opinion that the capitalist world will go tits-up before you hit 65 and I’m in a nursing home or strait-jacket, or both; so putting your £12 a month on an eachway thiever with Bet365 may be brass better spent, if you can get it on
When working as a carpet fitter it was through my father’s business, so I’ve never been "self-employed". HMRC tell me unless I get paid work as a tipster or for my knowledge (what there is of it) then I do not need to become self-employed.
An employee who’s lost his job then? Perhaps you should sign on the rock ‘n’ roll as it would appear that pros, semi-pros and dilettantes alike could do with it right now
Do you have a private pension scheme Ginger? If so it may be worth relying on that rather than subbing the state scheme with Class 2 NI
Anyway, I remain of the opinion that the capitalist world will go tits-up before you hit 65 and I’m in a nursing home or strait-jacket, or both; so putting your £12 a month on an eachway thiever with Bet365 may be brass better spent, if you can get it on
An employee who’s been made redundant without any pay off Drone!
Not going to sign on, as not interested in getting a job and would not be honest to be a "job seeker".I do have a private pension scheme Drone, but it is minute. One I can "invest" in at any time I like or never (no regular payments). After my Grandmother got Alzheimers and we had to sell her house to pay for Nursing Home fees (they also took all her pension) – I am not going to put much money in to a pension.
With my lifestyle and over-heads Drone, I can survive on less than £8,000 a year.
Value Is EverythingI right off about £10,000 a year so not much in advance of you
Once you’ve survived the great money haemorrhagers of family and mortgage it’s remarkable how little money is actually required to live a still-fulfilling life. I’ve never been particularly acquisitive and have become less so as the years have passed, to the point where I feel I need never buy anything but bare necessities again
Material possessions, with the exception a long-standing and tiresome addiction to ‘fine’ clothes and shoes mean next to nothing nowadays and I’ve nearly completed disposing of all the now-seemingly totally unnecessary and unimportant clutter acquired over the decades; feel much better for it and nothing is missed at all
A treasured companion, good friends, feeding the mind, filling the eyes and ears with art and music, digging the garden, the great outdoors, nature’s bounty…those are what matter to me and deliver lasting satisfaction; all else is trivial ultimately unrewarding froth, though racing and betting are rewarding but they of course are contributers to the mind’s nutrition
Good luck with the pro-punting Ginger-the-emancipated
Material possessions…mean next to nothing nowadays…A treasured companion, good friends, feeding the mind, filling the eyes and ears with art and music, digging the garden, the great outdoors, nature’s bounty…those are what matter to me and deliver lasting satisfaction
The crazed ramblings of a man who’s yet to see the new Jaguar F-Type:
http://male-extravaganza.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/New-cars-to-lease-in-2013-3-300×180.jpg
Shallowly yours,
Mike
One thing you may wish to look into is claiming working tax credit. I think you can say legitimately you are working 30 hours a week but don’t have any taxable income (or very little), even if the betting is profitable. This is not unusual for self-employed people in a recession. Have a look on the govt website and see how much you can get. https://www.gov.uk/working-tax-credit/overview
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