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Those attempting clever-dickery by deceiving the cashiers into taking bets after the off aren’t actually getting one over the bookie; all they are doing is jeopardising the job of the said beleagured cashier, who is no more than a very small expendable cog taking home pin money for the privilege of dealing with arseholes.
You could get your sixty notes back in kind by deliberately aftertiming some 50p losers and chase them up for the refund.
Those attempting clever-dickery by deceiving the cashiers into taking bets after the off aren’t actually getting one over the bookie
Drone, I’m not sure with the big bookmakers at least, that this is relevant anymore (and rightly so).
As is clear from the circumstances of Yorkie’s post the POS system is able to identify bets that are placed late but is unable or to be precise has not been designed to inform the customer at the time of placing the bet the bet is late. Further, it is evident that from the customer’s position the bet only becomes invalid if a selection has won and that no attempt is made to refund any invalid losing bets.
Of course, ultimately the responsibility of placing a bet before the off remains with the customer however there simply are occasional circumstances (and we have no reason to believe otherwise in Yorkie’s case) when it’s all a bit rush but nevertheless the bet is placed in good-faith.
I think as punters all we are asking for and should accept is that in these cases a common-sense approach as put forward by Rory is adopted on both sides. I don’t think that applies in this case and Yorkie has a legitimate cause for complaint – All we want as punters is a level playing field governed by common-sense.
some persistent late punters can be charged with attempting to defraud the bookie .
Any examples of this or have you just made that statement up?
The rules are their to deter fraudsters (not that the OP is one of those) but one of the best known schemes is "slow counting" ie. rushing up to the counter after the off with a bet slip with £500 written on it, handing over £400. If the horse wins you get paid out and if not you get a massive free bet.
See also if bookmakers pay out after the race has gone off on all bets not just those placed before the system "off’s" the race then you could quite easily wait for a slow starting horse to get out the gates on time, maybe a 1 or 2 length lead and then place your bet at SP say 12/1, your horse having to away on terms is no longer a 12/1 chance.
There’s also the argument that there’s no incentive to get your bet on before the race starts if you know that whatever time you place your bet you’ll either have the bet honoured as a winner or voided.
In a 6f race 8 seconds into the race is near enough a furlong – personally would prefer it if bookmakers just accepted bets up until the stalls open, would be far simpler all round but for various reasons (mainly due to the feed sent by SIS or the PA) this won’t happen.
Of course, ultimately the responsibility of placing a bet before the off remains with the customer however there simply are occasional circumstances (and we have no reason to believe otherwise in Yorkie’s case) when it’s all a bit rush but nevertheless the bet is placed in good-faith.
Hasten to add that my mini-moralising invective wasn’t aimed at Yorkie specifically, who may have a case; I’m in no position to comment on how bets are recorded in LBOs nowadays.
Just have a natural antipathy towards punters who – knowingly or unknowingly – commit fraud and expect the bet to be honoured if a winner or voided if a loser. Caveat emptor
The Bookmaker-Punter and Landlord-Tenant relationships have much in common: it is the former in both who get the bad press whereas in reality it’s the latter responsible for the majority of problems. And I’m not an apologist for any of them, least of all bookies.
…two wrongs don’t make a right…blah blah
On-course, betting just after the off is common; but that is a face-to-face agreement between punter and bookmaker.
Irish, you will know most of your customers, surely.
If someone who bets regularly in a shop is standing in line with his bet when a race goes off his bet should be accepted, in my opinion.
If the customer is not a regular then a decision would have to be made, the ‘off- slip’ was a ‘moveable feast’, can I assume that this is not the case with the ‘bet capture system’?
Colin
Irish
I’m fully aware of the majority of scams that people try in bookmakers, having served my apprenticeship in them, in every roll behind the counter. I was simply asking for any evidence from the poster of any examples of where a punter has been arrested, never mind charged with attempting to defraud a bookmaker, rather than merely getting told their business is no longer welcome.
Customer Service:
(UK) 0800 032 08 78
(Overseas)+44 1925 285023me mate works here and he said that each race has a set time that allows bets to be placed
each race time is different
ring the customer services and tell them what race it was and they will tell you the exact cut of time
its 20 seconds for some races so try your luck
- Total Posts 17716
Those attempting clever-dickery by deceiving the cashiers into taking bets after the off aren’t actually getting one over the bookie; all they are doing is jeopardising the job of the said beleagured cashier, who is no more than a very small expendable cog taking home pin money for the privilege of dealing with arseholes.
I wouldn’t quite put it like that Drone………I would have put the word "real" in between with and arseholes.
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- Total Posts 17716
I did check the slip and it said 2:30:37. I checked the race off time with ATR and it states 2:30:29 (so 8 secs but only 7 clear secs to be picky and i dont know if the bookies clocks run the exact same time as official race time)
I was at the counter with slip in hand and completed just before the off, one cashier was busy, so i gave the slip to the other who dithered a little but got it on.
I know its a very close thing but I have placed numerous bets on the off and after and never had this. If they take your money surely that should be the deciding factor – not the computer.
Think i will report it to the press – any ideas or contacts?
Thanks
The press won’t get involved mate at least not to any great extent. You said it yourself.you have placed numerous bets on the off.
If the press questioned the manager he would either pass them on to head office or tell them you were habitually late and they are within their rights. That doesn’t make news headlines and bookie get threatened every day of the week by irate punters who are very seldom right.
Your up **** street without a paddle and should move on and make sure you get your bets on in time in future.
The only chance you have is to go on to customer services and do not quote times to them because you will give them immediate ammunition to reject your appeal there and then.
Eat humble pie, explain to them you understand there are rules and you were in the wrong but on no way were you out to try and pull a fast one……."I’ve always been a good customer bla bla bal and I feel hard done by and I’m really upset by all this…..Is there any way you can help me…..Please please please!……threatening them with the press mate is about the daftest thing you could do. If you can get to the right person he could if your lucky overtrun the decision and ask you be more careful next time.
Fist, to me you seem to be missing the point about the fact that if it had been a losing bet they wouldn’t have returned the stake on the void bet?!
Colin
I’ve had this in a Betfred shop before. A friend of mine asked, after having backed a loser, whether he was on in time. He wasn’t, so was given his £400 back. Had he not asked it would have just gone into baldy’s rapidly diminishing coffers. The moral of the story is…never trust a company whose owner insists of having his ugly mug all over his promotional material (see Victor Kiam).
Fist, to me you seem to be missing the point about the fact that if it had been a losing bet they wouldn’t have returned the stake on the void bet?!
Colin
This is such a scummy policy to have. Basically stealing, just they have found a loophole to make the stealing ok.
Luckily in the betfred i use the manager is great and always tells you if your bet is on or off.
Fist, to me you seem to be missing the point about the fact that if it had been a losing bet they wouldn’t have returned the stake on the void bet?!
Colin
This is such a scummy policy to have. Basically stealing, just they have found a loophole to make the stealing ok.
Luckily in the betfred i use the manager is great and always tells you if your bet is on or off.
If you take the bet up to the counter it will show as a void. A lot of the time the bet in the EPOS system won’t be "translated" until after the race – ie. the details on the slip won’t actually be put into the system and as such "voided" until maybe 10 or 15 minutes after the event in the case of a busy period of time.
All
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