- This topic has 51 replies, 20 voices, and was last updated 16 years, 6 months ago by
.
- Posts
I’d have no profits if I had to use the bookmakers (18% loss at SP on the same bets). Ordinary punters can minimise their exposure to PC if they learn how to use the exchange efficiently. Although paying over 700 quid in additional charges suggest your no ordinary punter Librettist.
You mean the same ‘scum’ who enable us to bet in markets giving much more favourable percentages than those offered elsewhere? Oh what short memories we have…….
Bravo Rob. They also have the option of being fleeced by their local bookmaker or being knocked back if their any good.
Once you keep your commission payments above 20% of your gross profit you’ll never have to pay it. If you can regularly beat 100% markets to an extent where you do have to pay it you’re probably playing with an unfair advantage anyway, hoovering, fast pics, inside info, etc… and deserve to be "taxed".
You could argue its Betfair taking a slice of the action instead of preventing unfair advantage in the first place, although how they could stop it is anyone’s guess.
5% is more than enough commision for them. Only Betfair fanboys would be content with them taking chunks of dough out of other peoples accounts on top of what they already get.
Cav, you’re also comparing SP’s, but alot of people get early prices. Some firms also do best odds guaranteed, so perhaps your statistics don’t quite add up.
Cav, you’re also comparing SP’s, but alot of people get early prices. Some firms also do best odds guaranteed, so perhaps your statistics don’t quite add up
Yeah right Graeme. Try getting on if your any good over a period of time.
Taking early prices on 20000 plus bets? Sorry but I value the small semblance of sanity I have left
5% is more than enough commision for them. Only Betfair fanboys would be content with them taking chunks of dough out of other peoples accounts on top of what they already get.
Simple….Keep betting with the bookmakers.
Signed
Betfair Fanboy.
- Total Posts 17716
Commission rates of 5% are bad enough – it costs them no more to facilitate a bet to win £1000 than it does to facilitate one to win £10 – but Betfair are effectively taxing the successful and, as far as I’m concerned, that’s not on (especially if the charge is applied retrospectively, much like the self-employed completing and settling their tax return at the end of the financial year).
I assume that the charge was introduced to ‘punish’ those who exploit the flaws in Betfair’s system (time lapse in suspending markets etc). However, rather than addressing the actual problem (ie creating a system that doesn’t offer such outrageous opportunities) they’re simply saying ‘carry on doing what you’re doing, it’s OK as long as we profit from it too’.
Contemptible garbage.
It varies slightly depending on your commission rate and the vagaries of implied commission but the notion that only the really shrewd/cheats pay the PC is simply not true.
It is pitched roughly one standard deviation away from the mean performance of a pinsticker, so roughly one in six of players who fulfill the mimimum bets/allowance criteria will pay it in any given year.
I currently have 1 big bet matched 2 days ago on betfair on the 1st Test ending in a draw.
If the match ends up as a draw as I have had other bets during he past week/month this will click in the Premium charge for the current period.
Now if that Cricket bet won and was my
only
bet in the last month no Premium charges will be taken.
How is that fair?
If I fancied backing the draw today @7.50a.m.
1/5 betfair (1/20)
1/20 ladbrokes (currently)So they got you by the balls (no pun intended).
Who would in their right mind would lump on with Ladbrokes when even after Premium charges and normal commission you’d still be far better off with Betfair.
Don’t wish to worry you but rumour has it that an increase in the premium charge is being considered. Lets face it, it went from zero to 20% with very little resistance from Betfair users, so why not 25% or more?
The problem is that the big winners don’t have anywhere else to go – Betfair could probably take 50% and it still wouldn’t make economic sense for the winners to leave.
That’s a bit oversimplistic TDK.
In-running ‘experts’ on horse racing have nowhere to go. Pre-race punters have alternatives of varying plausibility depending on the circumstances. Soccer punters on BF have plenty of
better
options out there.
There is also the option to just give the whole thing a miss and not bet. I hear quite a few are doing this as a result of the PC including one of Scotland’s top pro-punterers!
It’s those on the borderline that are walking away. A ‘super punter’ can factor in the PC to calculations, as they know they will almost certainly get rebated for their losses. Someone scraping by just gets randomly clobbered from time to time and calls it a day.
Fair points. I’m not really suggesting it is in Betfair’s interests to apply the PC – I just think they know that there is a subset of their punters who don’t have any other outlets where they can operate at the same level of profitablilty – and they are milking that fact.
" I just think they know that there is a subset of their punters who don’t have any other outlets where they can operate at the same level of profitablilty – and they are milking that fact.": TDK
I think that is probably one of the few transparent certainties about the application of this PC by betfair.
Slightly off the point, but an interesting side point from this thread: is Cav saying that he makes a higher profit percentage than P. Veitch or H. Findlay?
If so, is there any particular reason why his "Hometown" is given as Doha?I just think they know that there is a subset of their punters who don’t have any other outlets where they can operate at the same level of profitablilty – and they are milking that fact.": TDK
Correct.
Slightly off the point, but an interesting side point from this thread: is Cav saying that he makes a higher profit percentage than P. Veitch or H. Findlay?
If so, is there any particular reason why his "Hometown" is given as Doha?Haven’t read Veitch’s book so cant comment on his profitability but I’d imagine my net ROI% would be close to what Findlay says he makes. There the similarity ends however, my win singles are bets composed of 2 digits and no more. I’d imagine Harry pays more commission in a fortnight then what I made over the past 12 months.
I do read and listen to everything Findlay has to say about gambling though, for all his bluster he knows what he’s talking about when it comes to using the exchanges in the best way possible.
As for Doha, I still have a real job (which I love) which is here for the moment. Full time professional gambling is lonely, not very glamorous, incredibly repetitive after a while plus the fairer sex by and large have an aversion to the blokes who do it.
Librettist’s experience, if I’ve interpreted it correctly, of a good winning run and/or big wins amidst the more usual losing runs leading to qualification for PC was more-or-less the reason I jumped ship to Betdaq immediately the PC was announced, despite it being unlikely I would exceed the supposed 250 markets stipulation over 60 weeks.
It’s the murky and uncertain nature of the workings of the PC and just who actually will qualify for it and when, exemplified by yet more
opinion
rather than
fact
apparent on this latest thread on the subject, that made me wary of the whole thing.
I don’t know
if my wagering on Betdaq would at some stage qualified for PC had it been on Betfair, and if I don’t know I don’t want to learn by being threatened with the charge
a la
Librettist "if your betting continues to be succesful" or by actually being surcharged.
Betfair themselves and assembled wise scribes on t’net have left me none the wiser so Puny Purple it is.
No idea what a ‘proper bet’ constitutes nor how ‘heavy’ the TRF ‘hitters’ are debating this, but for those content to grind away in low three-figures the liquidity on Betdaq’s live market is ample, and the offer prices are essentially a mirror of Betfair’s: I monitor both exchanges when betting.
So Librettist I suggest a curt e-mail, withdrawal of funds, and a transfer to Ireland.
And for firk’s sake let’s not pay homage to P Veitch as the latest in a line of punting godheads. He wrote a book, end of.
Funny that you should say that Drone. Just as I was about to withdraw my funds I discover that they have stolen £1,458.40 from my account this morning. So it was £700 ish last week (waived), double that this week, how much next week? And how do you work it out. I have emailed them so we shall see.
I received this reply from Betfair:
"Dear Christopher,
Thank you for your e-mail.
I have attached your Premium Charge statement showing how your account accrued these charges.
Put simply, we are introduced this charge because as a business we spend more on the customers that will incur Premium Charges than they generate in existing charges[/color:3lmu4s8a]
…."
He then goes on to explain how they work the charges out, which is basically only restating what is on their website.
I have replied and asked him to explain how I cost them more money than I generate in commission, but I won’t hold my breath for an adequate response.
Chris,
I found myself pretty much in the same boat when this tax came out .. I was very borderline and I wasn’t prepared
If you would take a bit of advise, I would suggest that you have a look at how you bet and which bets bumped the £1K allowance. If your like me, then it will be one or two lucky strikes a few months ago, that you’ve forgotten all about. Once you have worked out which bets or what particular strategy is to blame then change around what you are doing.
If your paying 5% commission on your winnings and they only give you a market average of 3% on your losses then your own calculations and any they give you will be skewed. A pointless exercise.
If your smart enough to pay, then your smart enough not to, imo.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.