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Betfair Premium Charges – should I be pleased!?

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  • #12027
    Librettist
    Member
    • Total Posts 559

    Today I received this email from Betfair:

    <i>Dear Christopher,

    We are writing to inform you that last week, for the first time, you would have been required to pay Premium Charges. However, in line with our policy for customer’s that incur the charge for the first time, last week’s Premium Charges have been waived. The charges should appear on your account statement as both a ‘Debit’ and a ‘Credit’ of exactly the same amount.

    Please be aware that in future, if your betting continues to be as successful as it has been, you may be required to pay Premium Charges.

    Full details of the charge can be found here. Any questions that you may have in relation to the charge should be directed to <!– e –>premiumcharge@betfair.com<!– e –>.

    The Betfair Management </i>

    I was feeling quite pleased with myself initially and even toyed with the idea of calling the Missus in and showing the email to her but thought better of it (she’d only want more shoes), until I checked my statement and realised that had this not been my first time, they would’ve taken £724.35 out of my account. Over seven hundred quid! Has anyone else been stuffed by these people in this way? Is their any way round it? I’d rather lose £700 to another Betfair customer than have it lifted from my back pocket by Betfair. I wonder if they would consider a refund once they see it was a fluke and i’m on my next huge losing run. I don’t know whether to be pleased or not and I cannot sleep. Help please!

    #238849
    seabird
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2924

    I believe our friend Glenn has the monthly honour of donating a percentage of his profits.

    Colin

    #238861
    Goldikova
    Member
    • Total Posts 1537

    The best way around it is to use Betdaq. Why the hell should Betfair take money from a punter who won it from another punter ? The scum already get a percentage of your winnings.

    #238871
    Seagull
    Member
    • Total Posts 1708

    This is why there really is no alternative to Betfair

    just the 1st market I looked at at 9.19 am today

    1st Test match

    the draw
    betfair £3,868.00 availbale at 1.62
    betdaq £1,234.00 ‘ 1.62
    wbx £ 55.00 ‘ 1.62

    So if you are strong on the draw and want any decent bet where does one go to?

    I have paid the Premium charge on a number of occasions which is hardly worth mentioning compared to what others pay but I would rather pay that than lose to someone else.

    I think it would be fair if they based the Premium charges over a 3 month period but they would take less money overall so that will never happen.

    In his book Patrick Veitch who is clearly an exceptional gambler calculates he made 16.7% on turnover over recent years despite having to take under the rates in order to get enough money on.

    He talks of Harry Findlay quoted as stating no punter on the Earth makes 8% on turnover.

    Patrick Veitch from his book hardly uses the exchanges to maximise his profit but he has agents and sub agents placed around the counry to get his money on. Without resorting to those means there is no real alternative.

    I agree the whole thing is a con and a bit like charging a drinker more because he drinks in your pub every day and therefore contributes more to your business than a once a year drinker.

    #238873
    robnorth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 6220

    The best way around it is to use Betdaq. Why the hell should Betfair take money from a punter who won it from another punter ? The scum already get a percentage of your winnings.

    You mean the same ‘scum’ who enable us to bet in markets giving much more favourable percentages than those offered elsewhere?

    Oh what short memories we have…….

    Rob

    #238877
    quadrilla
    Member
    • Total Posts 468

    He talks of Harry Findlay quoted as stating no punter on the Earth makes 8% on turnover.

    What a Bollox statement :wink:

    #238879
    dave jay
    Member
    • Total Posts 3386

    If you were lucky you shouldn’t really worry about it.

    It is annoying though and you need to bear it in mind I think because the odds you think you are getting adjusted by Betfair at a later date.

    Best to adjust your strategy a little bit and make sure you don’t cop for it again.

    I would rather get the odds I am taking and not have them trimmed by the Premium Tax up to 60 weeks later.

    #238889
    Cav
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4825

    You mean the same ‘scum’ who enable us to bet in markets giving much more favourable percentages than those offered elsewhere? Oh what short memories we have…….

    Bravo Rob. They also have the option of being fleeced by their local bookmaker or being knocked back if their any good.

    Once you keep your commission payments above 20% of your gross profit you’ll never have to pay it. If you can regularly beat 100% markets to an extent where you do have to pay it you’re probably playing with an unfair advantage anyway, hoovering, fast pics, inside info, etc… and deserve to be "taxed".

    You could argue its Betfair taking a slice of the action instead of preventing unfair advantage in the first place, although how they could stop it is anyone’s guess.

    #238894
    Glenn
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1988

    You mean the same ‘scum’ who enable us to bet in markets giving much more favourable percentages than those offered elsewhere? Oh what short memories we have…….

    Once you keep your commission payments above 20% of your gross profit you’ll never have to pay it. If you can regularly beat 100% markets to an extent where you do have to pay it you’re probably playing with an unfair advantage anyway, hoovering, fast pics, inside info, etc… and deserve to be "taxed"

    Sorry, but that’s complete nonsense. Black propoganda from the Big Blue PC department.

    I took a position on virtually every horse in every race last week, backing it if it was longer than my tissue and laying if it was shorter. My ‘commission generated’ was less than 5%. No fast pics, no inside info, no momentum trading.

    The bar they have set is very low. You don’t have to be engaging in skullduggery to be generating less than 20% commission, you just need a consistent profit on turnover of 7% or more. Many people will get caught out as a result of lucky streaks even though they’re long-term losers.

    #238900
    Cav
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4825

    Since the 17th July 2008 to the end of June 2009 I’ve had 20446 win singles, generated a gross profit of 7.67%, a net profit of 4.96% and haven’t paid a PENNY in premium charges. Thats been my own experience of playing every race every day for the last

    12 MONTHS

    Problem for 90% of punters is that they don’t know how the use an exchange efficiently.

    ITS NOT A BOOKMAKERS

    . <<<<<Read repeatedly until that FACT sinks in.

    I’m glad you post on here Glenn, but sometimes your constant whinging about EVERYTHING connected to UK horseracing really does grate.

    #238902
    Librettist
    Member
    • Total Posts 559

    If you can regularly beat 100% markets to an extent where you do have to pay it you’re probably playing with an unfair advantage anyway, hoovering, fast pics, inside info, etc… and deserve to be "taxed".

    You could argue its Betfair taking a slice of the action instead of preventing unfair advantage in the first place, although how they could stop it is anyone’s guess

    I’m not playing with any advantage. I am not familiar with ‘Hoovering’ or ‘Fast Pics’ – whatever they are – and I certainly am not privy to inside information.

    Betfair would only be taking a slice of the reward of my effort and hard work, not a slice of my ethically dubious pie.

    #238904
    Cav
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4825

    I did use the word REGULARLY.

    #238909
    wit
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2165

    Cav, what do you mean by regularly ?

    after a while away from BF, i got into paying it after a good run over six weeks, beginning with the guineas.

    i’m with Glenn – its entirely possible to get caught by reason of a single winning streak against a long-term indifferent or even non-existent performance.

    best regards

    wit

    #238910
    thedarkknight
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1299

    They shouldn’t be applying this to people who are long term losers – that doesn’t benefit anyone. Maybe they just need to rethink the terms.

    #238912
    dave jay
    Member
    • Total Posts 3386

    Cav, what do you mean by regularly ?

    after a while away from BF, i got into paying it after a good run over six weeks, beginning with the guineas.

    i’m with Glenn – its entirely possible to get caught by reason of a single winning streak against a long-term indifferent or even non-existent performance.

    best regards

    wit

    .. it’s an absolute mathematical FACT that long term losers will get stung for this.

    Cav, the only reason you haven’t been caught so far is purely down to luck, the longer you play the more your chances increase of being stuffed.

    #238922
    Cav
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4825

    Dont see any real figures up here folks. Would help enormously if you could post some up.

    If I was good enough to be making 15-20% over the long term, I’d have no problem giving 20% back to Betfair considering I wouldn’t be able to it without them. Why would I cut my nose off to spite my face?

    #238936
    Librettist
    Member
    • Total Posts 559

    Dont see any real figures up here folks. Would help enormously if you could post some up.

    If I was good enough to be making 15-20% over the long term, I’d have no problem giving 20% back to Betfair considering I wouldn’t be able to it without them. Why would I cut my nose off to spite my face?

    I don’t understand why you’d have no problem giving Betfair a large chunk of your hard-earned when you have already paid them a commission?

    Weren’t these charges brought in to catch out people using sophisticated software (bots?) or something, because it seems ordinary punters – and i’m very ordinary – are getting caught up in it.

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