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We all should know by now that KS doesn’t really do much off the bridle Mike
Don’t think anyone could think this through. KS finds plenty, and has proved his battling qualities when needs be.
Sorry Salselon,
What I meant was that KS doesn’t exactly canter 20L clear in his races does he. He either cruises to victory hard held by a few lengths, or wins narrowly when asked to battle.
In fact, your own words where;
"KS wasn’t tiring, he was idling. The minute ED came to his quarters, he was kept at bay".
This is my point exactly. KS doesn’t exactly quicken and go clear in a matter of strides when he comes off the bridle. He just does enough – which is, I think, what I said lol.
Mike
PS: Excellent post LGR.
What you talked about in your post is the reason I entered this thread. I am amazed, that from a form perspective, people think that ED can beat KS. Where’s the logic?
Mike
I can’t believe some of these posts who think ED is some sort of superstar rival to Kauto on that performance.
It would be easy to point the finger at Sam Thomas and say he rode a bad race, but everyone expected a bigger run from MWDS who simply never stayed a yard.
5 From home it was evident that the expected lead just wasn’t going to materialize and Sam Thomas finds himself in front with nothing to race with. If they knew then what they know now Kauto would have been ridden totally differently.
As a result Kauto’s been in front a long long time and he’s played right into the hands of ED. Kauto’s lost interest with nothing to race with, but in the end he’s won and no harm done.
Basically ED has been flattered by the winning distance and you just could not describe it as a true run race.
Perhaps I am alone in my thinking and that’s why Kauto is now odds on with almost every bookmaker in the country and ED can still be backed at 6/1
.The nearest ED will ever get to Kauto was yesterday. With Ruby back on board at Kempton the race will be nothing more than a formality and all your figures and ludicrous ideas that this is a mini Arkle V Mill house showdown will be proved totally wrong.
If you need to refresh your memories look back at the last King George. ED is there with every chnace and in 5 strides every chance he had was gone. Such is the class of Kauto Star and unless he falls or they meet in a handicap sometime in the future there is no way ED will ever beat him.
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All I can say is I’m glad we don’t all read form the same way.
Kauto Star wouldn’t be as good on heavy ground and, form apart, if his ratings are to be believed, is better at shorter than the Gold Cup trip.
Conversely, Exotic Dancer is almost certainly better for both and apart from his fto run this year and the King George, where circumstances favoured the former significantly, there has never been that much between them.
It is a fact, clearly evident from the video, more so from the overhead, that KS took ED’s ground approaching the 2nd last in the Gold Cup, causing ED to lose momentum both into, and away from, that obstacle, and both the 2nd and 3rd horses finished the race better than the winner. And on good ground rather than the official g/s
While I accept that KS is a superstar, and have thought so for a very long time, what I cannot accept, and yesterday provides just more evidence, is that ED is very far behind him. Witness his annihilation of Old Vic and others, and his almost perfect record, when KS hasn’t been in the field.
My money would still be on ED for next year’s GC, given proper soft ground rather than that invented for convenience by the CotC.I don’t think there is sufficient evidence that Exotic Dancer will be better over further than yesterday’s trip. Given the zest with which he travelled yesterday, I’d have no doubt he’d be just as effective back at 20f on similar ground.
To be fair to empty wallet, I did query one or two things with him yesterday and some of his responses were:-
"Kauto Star is most likely winner, however
ED has claims on reversing GC form with KSAll in all an interesting race, KS could muller em and there again if he’s not in tip top form he could get beat
I only see the GC as being a proper "form" guide….. but where ED did not get the best of runs having been stopped when Mcoy Coy wanted to kick for home
There is a chance of him [ED] being able to reverse or at least put KS under pressure because of this."Turned out spot on really, much to my indignation!..lol
p.s. I didn’t like the ride Paddy Brennan gave to Ollie Magern – what was he thinking of….weird.
All I can say is I’m glad we don’t all read form the same way.
Kauto Star wouldn’t be as good on heavy ground and, form apart, if his ratings are to be believed, is better at shorter than the Gold Cup trip.
Conversely, Exotic Dancer is almost certainly better for both and apart from his fto run this year and the King George, where circumstances favoured the former significantly, there has never been that much between them.
It is a fact, clearly evident from the video, more so from the overhead, that KS took ED’s ground approaching the 2nd last in the Gold Cup, causing ED to lose momentum both into, and away from, that obstacle, and both the 2nd and 3rd horses finished the race better than the winner. And on good ground rather than the official g/s
While I accept that KS is a superstar, and have thought so for a very long time, what I cannot accept, and yesterday provides just more evidence, is that ED is very far behind him. Witness his annihilation of Old Vic and others, and his almost perfect record, when KS hasn’t been in the field.
My money would still be on ED for next year’s GC, given proper soft ground rather than that invented for convenience by the CotC.You would be better buying a new pair of glasses with your money mate
As far as ED in the Gold Cup is concerned McCoy went for a gap that wasn’t there. He never lost momentum as such McCoy swithed ED to the inside very quickly. he maybe he lost a length and that is just a maybe. Jumping the 2nd last ……..Kauto showed you and everyone else what makes him different. Ruby gave him a kick and in a matter of a few strides was 4 lenths clear……..He clobbers last but still maintains what was reduced to 3 lenths all the way to the line…from ED who is bouncing up and down on the same spot McCOy switches him round a lose horse and he’s closer to the camera and he looks to you like he’s gained some ground…Kauto was slightly eased and the winning distance was a long looking 2 1/2 lengths..had he not clobbered the last it would have probalby been 6 lengths.Turpin Green was also switched twice in the latter stages and he never lost a yard of ground going up the hill to ED who was going nowhere.
You stay in bed and pretend your sick on Gold Cup day mate cos if you don’t you could end up in the poor house
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p.s. I didn’t like the ride Paddy Brennan gave to Ollie Magern – what was he thinking of….weird.
Possibly his starting price for the 2009 Charlie Hall?
Fist of Fury wrote
You would be better buying a new pair of glasses with your money mate
Can you recommend the rose coloured ones?
This is my point exactly. KS doesn’t exactly quicken and go clear in a matter of strides when he comes off the bridle. He just does enough – which is, I think, what I said lol.
Betfair last year?
I thought the significant aspect of Saturdays performance was that he seemed to jump better than anytime before
I cant have it all that ED has ever been unlucky against him. Thats simply reading something into the race that wasnt there
As for MWDS, Thornton said he "didnt stay" but king is adamant he blew up and needed race more tahn he thought. Interesting….
If ED wins I’ll send you a pair free and pay the postage from Thailand
What do you think of Turpin Green?…only had the one run so far behind Kauto but will come on for it. He was cruising between the 3rd and 2nd last and ran on really well, despite being all over the shop behind the lose horse.
If he were mines I would be looking for 2 real easy races before Gold cup day and have him spot on for the big day. He’s the one horse who scares me a little despite finishing last to ED last year.
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As for MWDS, Thornton said he "didnt stay" but king is adamant he blew up and needed race more tahn he thought. Interesting….
Needed the race more than he thought?
He said: “I thought I’d done plenty of work with My Way De Solzen at home but it obviously wasn’t enough, as he wasn’t fit enough and was done with at the top of the straight.
“I’d probably got him straight enough for most races, but in that ground and at that level there’s no hiding place. But he has come out of the race absolutely fine.
Any horse that is "straight enough for most races" that capitulates 3 out, and is beaten 42l off level weights is surely either outclassed or outstayed?
I learned a long time ago that the man to listen to is the Jockey….trainers that don’t listen to their Jockeys couldn’t tip their hat……Jockey says he didn’t stay I wouldn’t bet him with stolen money.
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By that reckoning Reet, was Aces Four outclassed or outstayed in the Charlie Hall?
As I recall DJ, Ferdie M went as far out of his way to make it clear that Aces Four needed the race as Alan K did to assure us that MWDS didn’t.
I learned a long time ago that the man to listen to is the Jockey….trainers that don’t listen to their Jockeys couldn’t tip their hat……Jockey says he didn’t stay I wouldn’t bet him with stolen money.
Me too.
Especially when Kieron Fallon said that the ground would be too much for Dylan Thomas at Longchamp for L’Arc and that he would rather be on Soldier of Fortune.
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