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I’m just trying to put your 0-4 stat into right perspective (if thats correct word)
OK then, think we will call it a draw for tonight
Forget your ratings and speed figures and all that – purely on form, anybody suggesting any other horse than KS as the winner of the Gold Cup and King George is way off the mark in my opinion.
We all should know by now that KS doesn’t really do much off the bridle and just because ED got a little closer today doesn’t mean that either KS is not as good as, or ED is better than last term (not saying anyone has suggested this).
The only danger to KS this season, and probably the next few, will either be a fence or a stablemate called Denman.
Mike
Forget your ratings and speed figures and all that – purely on form, anybody suggesting any other horse than KS as the winner of the Gold Cup and King George is way off the mark in my opinion.
He was the best today, as he was in last years race, as he was in last years KG and GC.
This years KG and GC could have the same result, however, going on todays race, defeat in both races is a decent probability for Kauto Star so suggesting otherwise IS way off mark
Stop living in fantasy land, he’s a very good horse, but like all very good horses he is not unbeatable as the Old Roan showed
Forget your ratings and speed figures and all that – purely on form, anybody suggesting any other horse than KS as the winner of the Gold Cup and King George is way off the mark in my opinion.
He was the best today, as he was in last years race, as he was in last years KG and GC.
This years KG and GC could have the same result, however, going on todays race, defeat in both races is a decent probability for Kauto Star so suggesting otherwise IS way off mark
Stop living in fantasy land, he’s a very good horse, but like all very good horses he is not unbeatable as the Old Roan showed
Not in my opinion EW.
L’Ami got to within a neck of KS before the Gold Cup, then got hammered in the Gold Cup – because KS simply does what he has to, nothing more, nothing less.
So going on today’s race, if you think defeat for KS in both the KG and GC is a decent probability, then who do you think would be the horse to do it? If you think it’s ED then sorry, I couldn’t disagree more.
Mike
Mikky last post as only time will prove fact
Like all horses, he’s a horse with energy that expires due to speed and distance and therefore he is liable to come across a horse that distributes its energy a little better and if a horse does distribute it’s energy a little better then Kauto Star will be defeated
It is as simple as that
Mikky last post as only time will prove fact
Like all horses, he’s a horse with energy that expires due to speed and distance and therefore he is liable to come across a horse that distributes its energy a little better and if a horse does distribute it’s energy a little better then Kauto Star will be defeated
It is as simple as that
Yes it’s as simple as that. Of course he will be defeated in time, or at least is most likely to be beaten in time – but anyone can say that!
Are you prepared to say when he will be beaten and by whom?
Arsenal are unbeaten this season but no doubt they will be beaten. It’s easy for me to say that, but it’s not easy for me to say when they will be beaten and by whom.
I hope you get my point as I mean no disprespect. All I am saying is that KS is the best chaser around in my opinion. He has proved it last season and is on the way to proving it this season, and purely from a form perspective I find it strange how anyone can fancy anything to beat him.
Mike
ps: off to bed now but will reply tomorrow if you give a reply that needs answering. Goodnight.
/quote]
EW, if they ever award a King George or Gold Cup to a horse based on "what could have been if…." then I’m sure Exotic Dancer will get one!
FFs, grow up
Think it’s you who needs to grow up. You trumpeted ED, he had a clear chance, didn’t quite come up to it.
Face facts as they are, don’t pretend you’re more intelligent at analysing a race than anyone else and be gracious in defeat of your fancy, instead of making excuses when there are none.
Good night.
We all should know by now that KS doesn’t really do much off the bridle Mike
Don’t think anyone could think this through. KS finds plenty, and has proved his battling qualities when needs be.
Think it’s you who needs to grow up. You trumpeted ED, he had a clear chance, didn’t quite come up to it.
Face facts as they are, don’t pretend you’re more intelligent at analysing a race than anyone else and be gracious in defeat of your fancy, instead of making excuses when there are none.
Good night.
I think you need to read what i wrote, which you seem to fail to do on a regular basis btw, because if you had you would have seem this
Posted: 24 Nov 2007 14:32 Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post
He got a clear shot, but he just wasn’t quite good enoughcracking race and worth the entrance im
and where have i made excuses for todays defeat???
Read the post(s) before trying to have a pop at me
You’re entitled to your opinion, but the facts are that he’s failed 4 times now! Not disrespecting ED who would be champion in many other years, but I would rather have KS on my side, as his record says he’s the superior horse.
The facts – it was a prep at Aintree, he blundered in KG losing all chance and he didn’t get a clear run at Cheltenham
if you want to use crude methods of analysis as 0-4 then do so, i prefer more intelligent analysis
Here’s one. Your ‘intelligent analysis’ tells you what exactly?!
Btw, I’ll think you’ll find it was Kauto Star who made more errors in the KG, yet still cantered out of sight of ED.
That’s 4 shots Exotic Dancer has had at Kauto Star and came up short each time, although he has run admirably in defeat each time. I don’t think I could ever bet Exotic Dancer against Kauto Star. Only way he’s going to finish in front of the champ is if Kauto makes serious mistakes or the ground is bottomless. Great to have 2 horses like them going head to head for our entertainment
ED has had ONE CLEAR SHOT at KS and that was today, he’s been beaten 1/2 length catching a tiring winner with every stride
Saying he can’t turn around 1/2 length is foolish, just like it was foolish thinking he couldn’t make up 2.5L, 8L or 20L when he hadn’t had a clear shot at KS
Again, imo, a lack of graciousness.
KS wasn’t tiring, he was idling. The minute ED came to his quarters, he was kept at bay.
Dear oh dear
Your post suggests i have made excuses for todays defeat when i have not, you post stated i was not gracious in defeat when i was
Try another time Salselon
Sorry EW, didn’t realise you’re going on 15. Let me try again. You nailed your colours to the mast, then declare that your fancy was catching KS with every stride and that KS was tiring.
Making incredible excuses as to how yoour horse nearly won shows a lack of graciousness when there is no plausibilty that can be attached to these.
I look forward to your explanation.
That’s 4 shots Exotic Dancer has had at Kauto Star and came up short each time, although he has run admirably in defeat each time. I don’t think I could ever bet Exotic Dancer against Kauto Star. Only way he’s going to finish in front of the champ is if Kauto makes serious mistakes or the ground is bottomless. Great to have 2 horses like them going head to head for our entertainment
ED has had ONE CLEAR SHOT at KS and that was today, he’s been beaten 1/2 length catching a tiring winner with every stride
Saying he can’t turn around 1/2 length is foolish, just like it was foolish thinking he couldn’t make up 2.5L, 8L or 20L when he hadn’t had a clear shot at KS
Again, imo, a lack of graciousness.
KS wasn’t tiring, he was idling. The minute ED came to his quarters, he was kept at bay.
Is it, i thought it was stating an opinion, though it does come across as bit arrogant i grant yer that, but thats the way of interenet forums and maybe it’s because of the way i write
As for idling or tiring, they are just interpretation as to what was happening, nothing more and unprovable either way
Sorry EW, didn’t realise you’re going on 15. Let me try again. You nailed your colours to the mast, then declare that your fancy was catching KS with every stride and that KS was tiring.
Making incredible excuses as to how yoour horse nearly won shows a lack of graciousness when there is no plausibilty that can be attached to these.
I look forward to your explanation.
Unreal
I cannot now give an opinion as to what i think happened without getting insulted or slated
Can’t you guys just agree to disagree? Its a sport of opinions to which everyone is entitled.
Come on kiss and make up.
Empty, all you have done throughout the previous 11 pages of this thread is tell people why they’re wrong to suspect Kauto Star has proven himself to simply be better than Exotic Dancer, so I don’t think you have much to complain about when your opinion is questioned. And the manner of your posting, whether intentional or otherwise, has offered the impression that you think you can read races and interpret form better than anyone else.
And that, with the greatest respect, is complete drivel.
Whilst your assertion that Exotic Dancer is capable of beating Kauto Star is admirable, the facts to which you make so many references just don’t back that up. You have made excuses for his first 3 defeats which, whilst suspiciously desperate, are perhaps conceivable (though the comparison with the fallers in the Arkle was laughable) and have now stated that ‘he was gaining with every stride on a tired winner’.
So did he win or not, or was he just ‘less second’?
But, just to humour you, let’s take a look at each race individually.
Exotic Dancer came into the King George having already had 3 runs, so there can be no doubts as regards fitness. He carried 11-10, just like Kauto Star and was not interfered with throughout the race. A mistake was made two-out, but he regained his momentum and any suggestion that such an error cost him in excess of 8 lengths is ludicrous. Then again, that would imply Kauto Star had had a clear round, wouldn’t it? And that he most certainly did not. So maybe, just maybe, the Nicholls horse was value for a little more than the official margin.
Kauto Star was forced to go the ‘long way round’ in the Gold Cup, having to run 3 or 4 horses wide into the turn whilst Exotic Dancer cut a line on the fence. The latter was the victim of slight interference approaching the second last, but he didn’t show the same turn of foot as the winner when in the clear and failed to make any significant inroads into the 2.5 length margin. Were you bleating about him catching a tired horse then – hell, why not up the Gold Cup trip to 4m and give Exotic Dancer the win?
Aintree is, sadly, a bit of a non-event in assessing the relative abilities of these horses as we know Exotic Dancer craves his reappearance run. That said Nicholls stated Kauto Star was far from fit, and he was giving away 7lb to his supposed equal, so a 20 length gap between the two can only suggest one thing (and giving a stone to a horse of the class of Monet’s Garden and only going down by just over a length is bloody good form).
Then we come to today’s race. You suggested that Exotic Dancer could overturn a 2.5 length deficit, saying that there was every reason to suspect he could, but he didn’t. There were no problems in-running, and the standard of each horse’s jumping was probably about the same, yet the race still ended in favour of Kauto Star. The only other factors we could consider are the ground which, despite being French-bred, would not have been ideal for Kauto Star and the fact that he was made to work to win the race. A quick look through Kauto’s form suggests good, good-to-soft is perfect for him, rather than anything too testing, and his battle with L’Ami (not withstanding that he was conceding 10lb and absolutely leathered the last) proves he has will as well as a turn of foot.
So, based on all of the above, how are we supposed to believe that Exotic Dancer has every chance of reversing the form under what will likely be identical conditions at Kempton and Cheltenham? He has tried four times, with no appreciable excuses, and has failed four times. All evidence suggests that, if anything, Kauto Star has been inconvenienced in each meeting and could well have won by further on some occasions.
You have gone from saying he can make up 2.5 lengths, to he can make up 0.5 lengths (given a little more distance)…what will we have next? All they are are excuses, excuses holding little water. Exotic Dancer is a good horse, a very good horse, but he’s unfortunate to be around at a time when there is a horse that little bit better. Kauto Star has proved it over a variety of distances, in spite of sometimes lacklustre jumping and with a combination of speed and determination. How, exactly, do you overcome that blend?
I’d love to be your bookie every time these two met, I really would.
Just a quick question – if Michael Schumacher (the unbeaten, proven class act) beat Lewis Hamilton (the dependable, ambitious adversary) four times at different tracks and under different conditions, who would you back next time out?
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