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Can anyone fault Frankie’s record in Group ones, compared to the other British and Irish jockeys at least?
And after he wins his Arcs you get a whole different form of entertainment that I doubt you’d get from any other jockey anywhere in the world. He’s absoutely hilarious; and Ray Cochrane, as his very dry, straight man put the perfect seal on the occasion.
Grimes,
I cannot argue with Frankie’s record, he is fantastic and a joy to watch. Though I do take issue with the comments regarding Kinane, he has been riding quite successfully over the last few seasons.
JohnJ
That’s right. Mick Kinane’s record at the biggest race meeting in the world in the last few years speaks for itself doesn’t it?
2000 BC Classic…Giant’s Causeway<br>2001 BC Turf…Milan<br>2002 BC Mile…Rock Of Gibraltar
Big race jockey? p**s
offI have the uttmost respect for any person who is willing to live the life of a jockey.
It’s completely un-natural for human beings to weigh the weights that jockeys weigh (particularly flat ones). It must be both physically and mentally draining. I weigh 11 stone 10 pounds and if I don’t have a good lunch then I don’t feel that great by night-time; imagine what it’s like for someone who weighs eight stone or less – it must be torture.
Jockeys also put their lives on the line, particuarly the less successful ones who have to ride horses that are completely unreliable to make ends meet.
I don’t think therefore it’s justified to criticise jockeys. Nobody forces a jockey to do what he does but despite the money available it’s not a job which would interest me!!
Letthebighossroll,
I love your arrogance, you could name any race were he made mistakes, yet I doubt you’d bother to mention any he was successful in.
P**s off was not the answer I thought you’d come up with, I presume with all of your arrogance you must have won at least 10 classics in your lifetime.
Big A*sehole would be an appropriate name for you.
Black Sam Bellamy<br>Couldn’t agree more that it would be torture to try and maintain such a low weight, particularly when you think how much strength they have to have as well. Those who are slightly on the taller side must have amazing self discipline. It’s not something that I’d ever be able to put myself through, not that I’m under any delusions that I’d be good enough anyway!
Flagship Uberalles<br>Agreed, Jamie Spencer’s definitely going to make a big impact in the next few years. He got slated fro his ride on HW but that’s life and I’m sure all the top jockeys have made blunders along the way. You just have to live and learn.
And of course, Lester has to be one of the greatest of all time. Pretty phenomenal record he’s got.
Milan! My arse! He was beaten entirely on merit! As he didn’t have the natural speed of Fantastic Light and just stayed on strongly without ever looking like winning.<br>Mick Kinane has without doubt been the best jockey in the world for the last decade. His big race record speaks for itself. I think a look in the record books might be advisable!
Apologies for this long post, but I think it needs to be said. This is for those of us who have been out of the planet for the last 20 years, this is MJK’s record in Group 1 races: –
1982 <br>Irish 2,000 Guineas : Dara Monarch
1983 <br>Phoenix Stakes : King Persian
1985 <br>Prix de l’Abbaye de Longchamp : Committed <br>Premio Parioli : Again Tomorrow
1986 <br>Irish 2,000 Guineas : Flash of Steel
1987 <br>Moyglare Stud Stakes : Flutter Away
1988 <br>Irish 1,000 Guineas : Trusted Partner <br>Premio Parioli : Gay Burslem <br>Premio Roma: Welsh Guide
1989 <br>Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe : Carroll House <br>Irish Oaks : Alydaress <br>Irish Champion Stakes : Carroll House
1990 <br>Belmont Stakes : Go and Go <br>King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stakes : Belmez <br>2000 Guineas : Tirol
1992 <br>St James’s Palace : Brief Truce <br>Italian Derby : In a Tiff <br>Arak Pokal : Tel Quel
1993 <br>English Derby : Commander In Chief <br>Melbourne Cup : Vintage Crop <br>Eclipse Stakes : Opera House <br>Irish St Leger : Vintage Crop <br>Arak Pokal : Monsun <br>Grosser Dallmayr Preis: Market Booster
1994 <br>Irish Champion Stakes : Cezanne <br>Irish St Leger : Vintage Crop <br>National Stakes : Definite Article <br>King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stakes : King’s Theatre <br>St James’s Palace : Grand Lodge <br>Coronation Stake : Kissin Cousin
1995 <br>Cheveley Park Stakes : Blue Duster <br>Italian Derby : Luso
1996 <br>Irish Oaks : Dance Design <br>Gold Cup : Classic Cliche <br>Fillies’Mile : Reams of Verse <br>Arak Pokal : Luso
1997 <br>Irish Champion Stakes : Pilsudski <br>2,000 Guineas : Entrepreneur <br>Racing Post Trophy : Saratoga Springs <br>Grand Critérium : Second Empire <br>Japan Cup : Pilsudski <br>Eclipse Stakes: Pilsudski <br>Champion Stakes: Pilsudski
1998 <br>National Stakes : Mus-If <br>2,000 Guineas : King of Kings <br>The Oaks : Shahtoush <br>Sussex Stakes : Among Men <br>Fillies’Mile : Sunspangled <br>Prix Morny : Orpen
1999 <br>Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe-Lucien Barrière : Montjeu <br>Phoenix Stakes : Fasliyev <br>July Cup : Stravinsky <br>Nunthorpe Stakes : Stravinsky <br>Prix Morny : Fasliyev <br>Prix de la Salamandre: Giant’s Causeway <br>Grand Criterium: Ciro
2000 <br>King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stakes : Montjeu <br>Tattersalls Gold Cup : Montjeu <br>St James’s Palace Stales : Giant’s Causeway <br>Sussex Stakes : Giant’s Causeway <br>Juddmonte International Stakes : Giant’s Causeway <br>Irish Champion Stakes : Giant’s Causeway <br>Phoenix Stakes : Minardi <br>Gold Cup : Kayf Tara <br>Prix Lupin : Ciro <br>Prix Vermeille : Volvoreta <br>Secretariat Stakes : Ciro <br>Middle Park Stakes : Minardi
2001 <br>Dubaï Poule d’Essai des Pouliches :Rose Gipsy <br>Prix Morny : Johannesburg <br>English Derby : Galileo <br>Irish Derby : Galileo <br>King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stakes : Galileo <br>The Oaks: Imagine <br>July Cup : Mozart <br>Nunthorpe Stakes : Mozart <br>St Leger : Milan <br>Phoenix Stakes : Johannesburg <br>Middle Park Stakes: Johannesburg <br>Breeders’Cup Juvenile: Johannesburg <br>Moyglare Stud Stakes : Quarter Moon <br>Aga Khan National Stud Stakes : Hawk Wing <br>Grand Critérium: Rock of Gibraltar <br>Dewhurst Stakes: Rock of Gibraltar <br>Grand Criterium de Milan: Sholokhov
2002 <br>Irish 2,000 Guineas : Rock of Gibraltar <br>St James’s Palace Stakes : Rock of Gibraltar <br>Sussex Stakes : Rock of Gibraltar <br>Prix du Moulin de Longchamp : Rock of Gibraltar <br>Coronation Stakes : Sophisticat <br>Irish Derby : High Chaparral <br>Eclipse Stakes : Hawk Wing <br>Poule d’Essai des Poulains : Landseer <br>Canadian International: Ballingarry <br>Gran Criterium: Spartacus <br>Gran Premio del Jockey Club e Coppa d’Oro: Black Sam Bellamy <br>Breeders’ Cup Turf: High Chaparal <br>Criterium de Saint Cloud: Alberto Giacometti <br>Hong Kong Cup: Precision
My criterion for the best jockey in the world is someone who is winning Graded races, often, all over the world and winning them for different trainers.
Kinane’s a one trick pony. All bar 1 of his 2001/2 Group/Grade 1 successes were for O’Brien.
In ’02 just look at the different number of trainers Mike Smith rode Graded winners for and how many different trainers provided Bailey with his 60+ stakes winners last year.
Kinane is dropping out of my list of the worlds best.
I’m not talking about his success in the last 20 years…the issue is his performance in the top races in the last 3, (not the O’Brien steering jobs he’s had in 5 runner Euro G1s) but the really big races.
Ultimately, his age is catching up with him.
Don’t really know enough about US jockeys to comment although I’d suspect the US trainers/public are a little less forgiving than we tend to be resulting in in a more professional and, ultimately, higher standard of rider. (there, despite not knowing enough to comment I have anyway!!)<br>So Uk/Irish jockeys – best ever must be Lester, the only jockey to whom the term genius could be applied in all seriousness. He was awesome and in his heyday was head and shoulders above everybody else.<br>Current jocks I’d say Frankie is good but has lost a lttle edge, Kinane good also but has the ammunition and may be past his peak. Fallon not quite up there with those two, strong but a bit basic. J.Spencer has the world at his feet and could be anything. However at the moment if I had a million quid on the outcome (which focuses the mind nicely) I’d want Johnny Murtagh on my side. Who’d you want riding if you had a million on!
Reason tells me David Flores or Lanfranco Dettori, but I’ve always been impressed by outrageously euphonious names (such as those French footballers, Bixante Lizarazou and Celestine Babayaro) , or just outrageous names. So I’ll add two more on that basis, Raul Baeza, who rode Roberto, who, I seem to remember was specifically chosen by the Wizard of Cashel for his uncanny sense of pace. Wasn’t Lester given the big A on his steed in that race? No, I think it was Willy Carson on Rheingold.
Finally, the thought of some tough little Panamanian having the name "Jacinto" or Hyacinth tickles me. Unfortunately I can’t remember his surname. But he’ll be long retired now, I’m unlikely to own the lowliest  selling plater in a vast partnership, and I wouldn’t have bet my life even on Sectretariat. But, I *am* looking forward to reading of some Mexican jockey bearing the name "kchessooss". Happy memories of Cannery Row. No, alas, only the book.
(Edited by Grimes at 12:57 am on Feb. 25, 2003)<br>
(Edited by Grimes at 12:58 am on Feb. 25, 2003)
If I had a million on the outcome, there is only one man I’d want on my side…P-Val.
Valenzuela is a genius (when not on the white stuff) and is guaranteed to get the best out of his horse.
Here is the last 2years: –
2001 <br>Dubaï Poule d’Essai des Pouliches :Rose Gipsy <br>Prix Morny : Johannesburg <br>English Derby : Galileo <br>Irish Derby : Galileo <br>King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stakes : Galileo <br>The Oaks: Imagine <br>July Cup : Mozart <br>Nunthorpe Stakes : Mozart <br>St Leger : Milan <br>Phoenix Stakes : Johannesburg <br>Middle Park Stakes: Johannesburg <br>Breeders’Cup Juvenile: Johannesburg <br>Moyglare Stud Stakes : Quarter Moon <br>Aga Khan National Stud Stakes : Hawk Wing <br>Grand Critérium: Rock of Gibraltar <br>Dewhurst Stakes: Rock of Gibraltar <br>Grand Criterium de Milan: Sholokhov
2002 <br>Irish 2,000 Guineas : Rock of Gibraltar <br>St James’s Palace Stakes : Rock of Gibraltar <br>Sussex Stakes : Rock of Gibraltar <br>Prix du Moulin de Longchamp : Rock of Gibraltar <br>Coronation Stakes : Sophisticat <br>Irish Derby : High Chaparral <br>Eclipse Stakes : Hawk Wing <br>Poule d’Essai des Poulains : Landseer <br>Canadian International: Ballingarry <br>Gran Criterium: Spartacus <br>Gran Premio del Jockey Club e Coppa d’Oro: Black Sam Bellamy <br>Breeders’ Cup Turf: High Chaparal <br>Criterium de Saint Cloud: Alberto Giacometti <br>Hong Kong Cup: Precision
Considering he only rides Group ones for Aidan O’Brien what else can he do, although the last race was not for O’Brien.
Maybe his age is catching up with him, but to be so dismissive of his career and his talents shows blatant disrespect for the sport and the people who make it so exciting.
Steering jobs????????? Is that not what the jockey is there for?
The whole point about Kinane is his straightforward approach. He makes very few mistakes, horses travel well for him and win if good enough.
Milan was never going to be the winner of that Breeders’ Cup race, and Giants Causeway got touched off by a champion horse who repeated the trick the following year. Rock of Gibraltar might have won with a better ride, but nobody’s perfect.
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