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Quote: from thedarkknight on 8:33 am on Nov. 3, 2004[br]at 2 miles I would be 2-5 Azertyuiop, 5-2 Moscow, 25 Best Mate).<br>
<br>So Moscow Flyer will be a 5/2 shot at Sandown? (I dopubt that very much…) To quote myself, ‘Bring it on!’
TDK, do you think people would be interested in backing Moscow Flyer at 5/2? At 2/1 even? I’ll be surprised if he’s as long as 6/4…<br>[br]Would you back Azertyuiop at 2/5?
Ok, TDK, Well Chief will take a chunk of the market but essentially what we are talking about here is a match bet between Azertyuiop and Moscow Flyer.
You mention the fact that MF started at 6/4 at Sandown last year… but Azertyuiop started at 2/1. In the Champion Chase it was 5/6 v 15/8… in favour of Moscow Flyer. The betting market has assumed MF’s supremacy, shall we say.
So while Azertyuiop deserves credit for doing the business last March and again for defying his handicap rating yesterday, the fact remains that he still has not proven his supremacy over Moscow Flyer where it really matters and rings true ie. on a racecourse where they both finish and produce their best effort. Why would the betting market suddenly assume such supremacy?
That said, I do accept that Azertyuiop will be favoured this time round, for the reasons of age and improvement given here, but there certainly won’t be that much in it. 5/6 plays 6/5?
Grasshopper, Moscow Flyer’s jumping is fine and most importantly he has no ability inadequacies!
Listen,
Its like this, can you Azertyuiop fans actually see it in your minds eye, the two horses together from the Pond fence, Barry Geraghty on Moscow Flyer, think last year, who’s going to win it? Let’s be frank about this, all excuses aside, it wasn’t even a race last year. MF was in front pulling a cart from the Railway fences and never even looked like being challenged. Azertyuiop wasn’t fit? He still finsished second. Seemingly he carried condition yesterday as well yet was able to put up his lifetime best performance. There was more truth and merit in last year’s Tingle Creek than people are willing to remember.
I didn’t see yesterday’s race, however I am of the opinion that Azertioup’s win at Chelts last year was top class, his jumping down the back was awesome. IMO He will be very hard to beat, he is as TDK has said the best chaser around at the moment.
In relation to Kicking King, his jumping at Gowran on his reappearance was quite impressive, I reckon he will win in Down Royal on Saturday, he has more class than Beef or Salmon and I think he has a real outside chance of winning the GC next year.
JohnJ
Im a big Moscow fan and cant wait for this battle. I did watch the race yesterday, and I have to say for the first mile or so, Rubys fears of him sometimes taking pull were realised. He fell last year, and Ruby put it down to him ripping the arms off him. The horse seemed hard to settle for the first half of the race and I have to say I was worried for him at that stage.<br>He settled beautifully after this and won very well. but this is a flaw and I think Moscows superior cruising speed will win the day.
P.S<br>What a change the jumps season brings to this forum. The banter is much better, and the battles that we are all expecting for the coming season puts a sense of excitement in the posts far outweighing anything the flat can offer.
A big factor of Azertyuiop’s running is the need for a good , strong pace.
With Edredon Bleu in the race yesterday you would have thought that was assured , but Jimmy McCarthy rode a poor race on him in my view.
If there had been a good gallop , Azertyuiop would have settled better and that four length victory could have been considerably greater.
His jumping is fantastic and with a run under his belt , Moscow Flyer is going to have to run like a whippet with an arse full of dynamite to beat him.
Great thread guys, right good reading. I am of the opinion that Moscow Flyer may not be done yet. Just lock at what Edredon Bleu has done in his later years. What I would like to know is if they plan to run him over further or keep him to two miles. I dont want him being the annual non-stayer in the King George.
Odds compilers. Moscow goes into the King George without Best Mate, what price would he be and would he be fav?
(Edited by Gearoid VI at 3:27 pm on Nov. 3, 2004)
Am I the only one who hadn`t copped on to that, Nore?!<br>Zerty is v.good, but I`m not sure what he beat yesterday- Edredon was by no means at his best, Seebald needs longer, and the rest aren`t in his class. Still, he looks the one to beat this year.
Listen guys, Azertyuiop WON’T win the Champion Chase.
Joe, when Azertyuiop has finished his career in racing and goes on to retirement, the Queen Mother Champion Chase will be renamed………the Azertyuiop Champion Chase. <br>Azertyuiop is the perfect racehorse. He is an athlete, a mean machine, the fastest and cleanest jumper around. I am sure we haven’t even seen the best yet. What he achieved at Exeter yesterday was awesome, and to be honest the replays are good, but it doesn’t even come close to actually being there at Exeter and watching this horse around the paddock, the race itself and the reaction afterwards. If only Sporazene had stood up, it would have been perfect.
(Edited by Mully at 6:00 pm on Nov. 3, 2004)
Joe,what’s the problem,it’s good to see some worthwhile discussion on the actual horse racing side of the sport for a change.
I still remain to be convinced that Sporazene would have beaten Ashley Brook,he was showing no signs of stopping at the time Sporazene fell.
A constructive contribution as always Joe.
This thread is , for once , well worth while and sensibly discusses the merits of Azertyuiop and also the merits of the horses likely to be pushing him this season.
If you don’t agree that Azertyuiop is the best chaser in training or even that he’ll win the Champion Chase , fair enough – give us something useful from your own thoughts. The fact that you’ve got Venn Ottery listed as the CC winner ( as a successor to Bob’s Buster ) doesn’t say too much , but , that’s your opinion.
Tell you what , offer me odds on Azertyuiop winning the CC ( if you’re that confident ) and I’ll back him now with you.
I still think that Azertyuiop’s best performance was in the Victor Chandler. Yesterday’s race was a bit of a mess. Edredon didn’t give his running, Flagship never does these days, Kadaraan and Seebald are not reliable yardsticks and Hot Shots was 9 lb out the weights and unsuited by the ground. No doubts that Azertyuiop’s form entitles him to the moniker of best chaser in Britain, but he was already that before yesterday.
Moscow Flyer is a horse that we have still not got to the bottom of yet. Azertyuiop is more straightforward but I do think that the Flyer lacks concentration and soon gets bored. On the whole he is a good jumper but has a tendency to walk right through one when not concentrating. I fancy Moscow Flyer to win the Tingle Creek and the King George but don’t think he will beat Azertyuiop at Cheltenham. Two years on the bounce he has made mistakes at the ditch at the top of the hill and he is always going to vulnerable round there in my opinion. However we are in for a cracking winter.
I guess that answers the question, Azertyuiop won’t win the Champion chase because he’ll get whooped by Moscow Flyer in the Tingle Creek.
Whooped might be a bit strong but if he does get beaten, that doesn’t mean he can’t win in March. Tuesday’s performance was quite strong in terms of form and a good one but I’m not convinced it was Azertyuiop’s best performance so far. Nor am I convinced that we have seen his best performance.
Just on the Edredon Bleu age argument, I know he was resurgent last season but he hasn’t actually won over 2 miles since he was 9. Now he can last 3 miles whereas in 2000 he struggled. He’s lost speed and the Moscow Flyer age argument is ‘how much speed does he still have?’ or thereabouts. ÂÂÂ
There’s no reason to assume that Moscow Flyer has suddenly slowed down but the argument is valid.
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