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Let’s be clear. Sam Thomas did
not
"win them" the Gold Cup – the horse did it all by himself. Bella Emberg could have ridden Denman in March 2008, and he still would have won.
As for loyalty, when has this ever existed in racing (beyod JP’s apparent refusal jotter Frank Berry – a man who couldn’t pick his nose, let alone a decent horse).
Oh joy, some sanity at last, VG GHIf Sam didn’t "win" The Gold Cup ….(personally I thought it was a wonderful ride, ditto the 2008 Hennessey) …then by that reckoning it’s fair to say that Sam Thomas didn’t make Kauto Star fall at Haydock, the horse fell himself and, had he stood up, he would have been beaten by the "wonder horse"
Snoopy Loopy.If both horses are fully on song on the same day then Denman wins everywhere except possibly Kempton, I’m less covinced that this is true with AP on Denman’s back
In my opinion Sam and Denman were/are the perfect pairing
I can’t understand the stable politics pushing Ruby into a decicion so soon. I imagine he’s very unhappy about it too he should have been allowed to wait till after the Aon then Sam Thomas (previuosly sucessful jockey) or Christian Williams (stable retained jockey with a 100% record on Denman) got the other horse.
If for some reason Kauto was unable to run in the Gold Cup who would ride Denman?
I think McCoy would keep the ride.If for some reason Kauto was unable to run in the Gold Cup who would ride Denman?
I think McCoy would keep the ride.I wouldn’t bet on it.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Lest we forget Thomas won them a gold cup in the past but now he is being publicly humiliated. Barber/Findlay/Barber are making themselves look like a right bunch of muppets.
Let’s be clear. Sam Thomas did
not
"win them" the Gold Cup – the horse did it all by himself. Bella Emberg could have ridden Denman in March 2008, and he still would have won.
I would have at least twenty other jockeys on my horse, before I reached for Sam Thomas. Decent yokes get him out of trouble, imo, and he can’t get moderate ones jumping for him.
AP is light-years better, and the decision makes perfect sense. Denman needs a positive ride if he is to have any chance of turning Kauto Star over, and McCoy is exactly the man for the job.
As for loyalty, when has this ever existed in racing (beyod JP’s apparent refusal jotter Frank Berry – a man who couldn’t pick his nose, let alone a decent horse).
Correct, excellent post.
Hello everybody.
Whilst I feel desperately sorry for Sam I am starting to get very excited about seeing AP ride the big horse.
Owners have hard decisions to make,and they have to do what is best for the horse.
They know what they want and they know the horse better than most of us.
Racing isn’t a popularity contest,it’s about trying to do the right thing to enhance your chances of winning.
AP and Denman doesn’t sound too bad does it?I read somewhere that some punters think AP can’t present a horse properly at a fence.
Such statement make me shudder and wonder what sport people are watching.
It’s little wonder there are so many rich layers out there.
- Total Posts 17716
I don’t know much about the Jumps scene so rarely comment on these threads. One thing I’m certain of though is that Tony McCoy is, was and always will be a lengths better pilot than Sam Thomas. Anyone disputing that needs medical treatment or a major cash injection to stave them from bankruptcy.
As for McCoys so called big race decline over the last few years. What a joke! The guy simply hasn’t had the class of horse good enough to compete at the very top since joining the McManus/Jonjo camp. It’s easy for Walsh to look consistently good when he’s riding the best horses all the time. He didn’t look so fantastic with some of his "waiting" rides at Doncaster yesterday. It’s not like anyone gets on an ex McCoy mount and improves the animal. You’d think it was a regular occurrence the way some on here carry on. Let’s get a grip on reality folks!
Grassy, Gaz, Fist etc, I agree McCoy is a better jockey than Thomas…and thats why I am not surprised he has been given the ride. What irks me are the comments coming from team Denman. To publicly say that any other jockey (ie Thomas) onboard Denman is like giving away weight is where they are stooping below the belt. Why not just say they want McCoy as a multiple champion jockey and leave it at that. No need to kick a man who will be hurting enough.
I am sure Thomas will be the first to congratulate McCoy and Denman should he win, he’ll be chuffed to bits for the both of them (especially the horse). But thats because Thomas is a bigger man than Barber/Findlay/Nicholls.
I think there are times when messrs Findlay, Barber and Nicholls speak first then think later.
Sam Thomas, afterall, has collected a fair bit of prize money for them. A slight bit of diplomacy would not have gone amiss from Barber, irrespective of his true feelings on the matter.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
I don’t know much about the Jumps scene so rarely comment on these threads. One thing I’m certain of though is that Tony McCoy is, was and always will be a lengths better pilot than Sam Thomas. Anyone disputing that needs medical treatment or a major cash injection to stave them from bankruptcy.
As for McCoys so called big race decline over the last few years. What a joke! The guy simply hasn’t had the class of horse good enough to compete at the very top since joining the McManus/Jonjo camp. It’s easy for Walsh to look consistently good when he’s riding the best horses all the time. He didn’t look so fantastic with some of his "waiting" rides at Doncaster yesterday. It’s not like anyone gets on an ex McCoy mount and improves the animal. You’d think it was a regular occurrence the way some on here carry on. Let’s get a grip on reality folks!
Thanks for advice, but I think it is very much case of after you.
It is not about who is best jockey. We already know Thomas is capable of winning a Gold Cup on the horse – it is a touch silly to suggest anyone could have won the horse. McCoy could be a total disaster on the horse. Guesswork against something that is proven and they have opted for guesswork.
As regards AP’s performances on a Saturday and in big races in general if you bother to look through the records you will see that he can’t hide behind the McManus excuse forever. In any case if he really does make the difference you suggest he would surely be the first rider to be considered for any decent spare ride.
Another thing that is becoming tiresome where AP is concerned is commentators banging on about rides like Topsham Belle. Who is to say many other jockeys would not have won by five lengths. Perhaps sometimes could he not just be making the relatively easy seem very difficult?
Forgive me for being thick or completely out of touch, but isn’t Christian Williams supposed to be second jockey at ditcheat htis season. How come no mention of him or is he hurt?
Good decision. The owners and trainer are entitled to have who they want on him and if they’ve no confidence in Thomas then you can’t do much better than McCoy.
I prefer Denman over Kauto Star for the race looking at the current prices and would liked to have seen Barry Geraghty on board but McCoy will have to do!
AP is a legend and will do a fantastic job on Denman but it won’t change where he’ll finish (2nd, at best). At least in this year’s Gold Cup he won’t be staring at Kauto’s a*se until 3 out…. only for it to fade into the distance as Kauto leaves him for dead.
I cant see this being a good combination at all. Denman is a game front runner that needs a jockey who keeps a bit in the tank in reserve for after the last, especially at cheltenham. Look at Mccoys ride on lough derg on saturday, shovelling the coal on over a mile from home, not saying the horse had any chance of winning but was totally nackered by the last. i know Tom scu pushes the horse along but in a different way.
I can just see Mccoy going for glory coming down the hill giving Denman a few smacks because he cant resist it and being so leg wiery by the last he struggles to hold on for 2nd.
I have no doubt that mccoy is the man for the job getting your ‘average’ horse up in a finish at hereford or fontwell but his record in top races on top horses, especially in recent years is poor.I’m sorry, but Sam Thomas has done nothing over the past two years to suggest that he warrents a ride like Denman. If a striker isn’t scoring goals, he would be dropped. If me in my job wasn’t performing up to scratch, I would be fired. Thomas is no different to this.
People talk about ST getting a tune out of the horse. Are these the same people who complained about Ruby being on him in the hennessy? What happened? Ruby produces a career best on the horse.
Reality check. ST has never produced a brilliant performance on Denman. It was the horse who won those races and any one of 30 or so Jockeys could have won on him. Ruby disproved the theory that ST made Denman better at the hennesy meeting. Denaman goes equally as well for Ruby as he does for Thomas. Why should that be any different for McCoy? It’s not as if he’s a difficult ride. The only difference that may happen is if it’s a close finish. And who better than McCoy in that situation?
I’m a Denman fan. And I personally am delighted with the booking.
Hello everybody.
Whilst I feel desperately sorry for Sam I am starting to get very excited about seeing AP ride the big horse.
Owners have hard decisions to make,and they have to do what is best for the horse.
They know what they want and they know the horse better than most of us.
Racing isn’t a popularity contest,it’s about trying to do the right thing to enhance your chances of winning.
AP and Denman doesn’t sound too bad does it?I read somewhere that some punters think AP can’t present a horse properly at a fence.
Such statement make me shudder and wonder what sport people are watching.
It’s little wonder there are so many rich layers out there.Shudder away, that’s me. I’ve seen it so many times this season that it can’t be a coincidence. He gets them undecided then they lose confidence. It’s coming to the point where if he’s on my fancy i’m not going to bet in the race.
Two winners in the last 14 days at 1-4 and 1-7.
Oh joy, some sanity at last, VG GH
Snoopy Loopy.
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