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PR – As Jay says, and as I mentioned in my post, this law has many loopholes and will be very open to interpretation (you agree the hypothetical old lady can ‘get away with’ essentially breaking the spirit of the law), particularly by those whose livilihoods are at stake.  I’m sure fine lines can be trodded by law abiding citizens, which still have to be policed, for example drivers who are within the legal alcohol limit are still often breathalized.  Even if a law is not being broken it still has to be policed. I hope I have explained that without casting aspersions on any characters!
For me, this issue is one of personal moral choice, which is something I do NOT believe the government has right to pass judgement upon.  British society as a whole cannot agree on this contentious and often emotional debate, and as such to outlaw an issue is an infringement on personal liberty.  Read the following statement, and see what you think.
Divorce is seen by some people as a sin.  It often has innocent victims, is morally wrong, and should not be permissible in society. Other people believe that divorce is often essential and far worse damage would be caused to society without it and the benefits it brings.  Other people may not like the idea of divorce, but they believe it does not harm society and people should be free to divorce if they please.
Agreed?  Then read this statement again and exchange divorce for fox-hunting.  Again this statement makes sense.  Try it again, but instead put in the words murder or burglary or rape or terrorism or selling heroin. ÂÂÂ
That is the difference between an issue that should be personal choice in a free society, and that which a government should act upon. ÂÂÂ
I really have to question the morality and sanity of people that take part in things like Fox Hunting,Badger Baiting,Dog Fighting etc, ( I don’t see any difference ) .<br>What type of creature actually gets pleasure from indulging in these pursuits. I know we all have our own opinion on all subjects, but there are people walking the streets that simply shouldn’t be!
Not wanting to get into a major rant here, so i’ll just keep it short(ish) unfortunatly when the server broke we lost a good thread in Chit Chat 2 about this subject.
I work in a point to point/hunting yard, so I will lose my job if hunting is banned.  I also know a lot of other people that will be affected, the knock on effect to other horse related businesses will be immense as people WILL get rid of their horses.
We are here because we like horseracing, and a lot of people do ask what happens to racers once they are too old/too slow to continue racing, the answer for many is to hunt or point to point.  I was thinking of buying an ex-racer, especially to hunt and possibly point to point.  Now I’ve changed my mind, if this time next year we have no hunting then theres no point of buying and then the cost of upkeep just to see him hacking out (does nothing for me) and i’m not a big eventing fan so that doesnt appeal either.  Anyway what i’m trying to say is, if I’ve thought this way, how many other people are thinking the same?  And what happens to them afterwards, surely this is more cruel than the so called "chase and kill"
I would invite any anti’s to come along to our yard, and go on a days hunting, see how the horses are happy and enjoying life with a bit of variety.  I personally dont see how people can have an opinion for or against until they have seen what goes on in the country.  They only time townies will ever see foxes are when they’re in the garden or scavanging through rubbish, they dont see the death and destruction that they cause. ÂÂÂ
Foxes need to be controlled and as I see it hunting is the best way of doing it, its a form of natural selction, only the old and sick are caught, and despite what some people may think, the fox is not ripped to shreds alive.  The lead hound is given the order by the huntsman, it is a quick death by the hound going for the neck (sorry if this sounds a bit graphic), and how 1 fox is going to be eaten by 20 pair of hounds I dont see how they all can share!!
I will lose my job because there will be no horses to look after as we are a hunting and p2p yard. The horses are bought especially to hunt, so whats the point in keeping them if theres no hunting?
As said, many of the people riding see nothing of the fox and have little or no appreciation of the effort and knowledge involved, that gives them a good days hunting. If that is so, then would they know the difference between a days drag-hunting or a days fox-hunting, I think not. The horses have no understanding about why they are having a day out, so ex-racers and sour horses would enjoy drag-hunting just as much.
Point to pointing would continue, but have less meetings nationwide and I would expect of a higher quality. A good day out, you should try it sometime Esc. I do think that there should be a suitable compensation package for those directly involved that lose their jobs through this change in the law.
The older and weaker foxes are obviously easier to catch than a fit and strong one, but my no means the only ones, a very sanitized, but misleading and inaccurate statement. Even the strong ones succumb to exhaustion when they are chased for miles, especially in ‘foreign’ countryside after their own holes have been blocked up.
Hounds do not have the manners that you suggest, another misleading statement, they will not wait for the lead dog to do the ‘honours’, before they indulge and likewise, the lead dog will not wait for the huntsman to give the order before killing the fox. As docile as they seem mingling around at the ‘meet’, they transform into the very strong and efficient killing machine that they were bred for.
From deepest Cornwall all the way up into Scotland and all points to the East and West.
It is a good day out with a pleasant, relaxed atmosphere.
For more information try http://www.jumpingforfun.co.uk/ and I would message The Rook for advice on a decent meeting within travelling distance of Merseyside. He might even give you a few tips as well!!
escoriol<br>you are beyond belief mate every time i read a topic on this forum there you are again<br>it wouldnt be so bad but i dont think i have agreed with you once
That’s what a forum is all about Sirspread, opinion, not much point in having it without opinion, is there.
You could of course post YOUR opinion, then that would be a discussion, the object of the forum.
:laugh:@ sirspread, so you’ve noticed eh? :biggrin: Escorial is always in there as he loves these debates and nine times out of ten you’ll probably disagree with him :laugh: this time I’m in agreement with a few things he says…
I’m from Scotland and I’m glad they’ve banned this barbaric blood sport, no-one would like they’re dog to get chases by a pack of Wolves and be torn to ribbons so why "enjoy" seeing a beautiful animal like a Fox go through all this? IMO the "Tally-Ho" brigade can still go "hunting" and exercise their horses without having to chase a Fox, they could pretend to chase Foxes and still enjoy it can’t they? or is it really the excitement of seeing their pack of hounds rip a Fox to ribbons?
I also think farmers should be the only ones to keep foxes at bay if they persist to attack their livestock but thats only if the fox comes to them and not go looking for the fox………..phew! finished now, this debate could go on for ever but I’m just very happy that Scotland has seen sense at long last and I’m looking forward to seeing Foxes roam free!
POWER TO THE FOX!
Hi Jim, the little fox is not the fluffy little animal that he is portrayed to be by some. He in his own right is a pretty efficient and ruthless killer.
The fox population has to be controlled, but hunting by hounds is not the most efficient way.
Over here, the ‘do-gooders’ managed to get a ban on the Spring Bear Hunt, (A bait of meat is put down and the poor bugger is shot from a tree hide as he sniffs the meat………..SPORT???), now they are forced to expand their territory to survive and are becoming a nuisance and a danger to areas that never had any problems at all with bears. They were also portrayed as cute and cuddly, but that view changes when they are standing outside your backdoor going through your garbage.
You have a good point in that farmers should be the ones to deal with the problem and sometimes it is better to go looking for it, before it comes to you.
Esc,
I absolutely agree that I really enjoy the day out and the social side of things. I know that my horse loves it too – naturally he likes running in a herd but he also seems to take a keen interest in the hounds and I can tell from experience that he loves keeping up with them.
I also think that controlling the population of foxes, mink or stags is a good thing – too many of any creatures can be a bad thing for the animals themselves in an urban country like outs.
On a few of your points, I said probably because we have so many foxes around this year I could not definitely say that we killed the one we were after but it was certainly within half a mile of the incident. Because we could not start hunting until Xmas this year there are so many foxes as we did not cull the sick and lame ones and the weakercubs (which look like full grown foxes and not babies by they way) from this years litter.<br>As for the lead hounds killing the fox instantly this certainly seems the way. We often take the fox quickly -very rarely having a long chase – and the first one there snaps it neck in an instinctive action.<br>I don’t know about foxes being bred – something I’ve never heard of and certainly outlawed by the very strict code of ethics that MFH have to abide by nowadays.<br>Finally remember that I love animals. We have 3 horses and dogs and we genuinely care for them. I think it is important to differentiate between pets and wild animals which need some sort of control if they are to thrive without impinging on humans.
Kathy, I know what Foxes are capable of and I also know they attack farm animals (I actually mentioned that farmers should be the only ones to be allowed to kill them), BUT what I do hate is the "Tally-Ho" brigade chasing foxes just for the sport, foxes are easily frightened off by humans so I can’t see how they can really be a danger, I used to feed foxes at night when they came near to where I stayed, and cats too but at no time did the foxes go near the cats, a fox couldn’t catch a cat anyway unless it was old, (I’m not saying I don’t believe you or anything like that just that it’s unusual for cats to be victims). At the end of the day Scotland has made the correct decision on this issue and I for one am very happy about that, I also know as you have said that foxes aren’t cuddly but they are beautiful animals and should have every chance in life.
ps. As I’ve already pointed out the Tally-Ho brigade can continue to do what they normally do without having to chase foxes BUT I doubt they will as IMO they need to kill to enjoy what they do!
:kiss: ;)
There should be a law that only allows hunting of ugly animals.  Leave those beautiful foxes alone.
<br>Why the hell do people get so worked up about foxhunting?
Because it’s easy, and dosn’t affect them.
Why not get on your soap boxes about something whcih really matters to everyone. For instance, not buying fuel from Esso, or any of the ‘real’ issues that concern everyone?
Absolute bolderdash all this ban hunting crap.
How many people go out of their way to ensure all the products they buy havn’nt been tested on animals etc etc etc.
So many people have an oppinion without knowing anything about the whole complex issue.
regards <br>Jake
Jim, Good point.  Maybe they could breed a genetically modified ugly fox, then few people would complain.
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