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But if you believe owners would be put off buying horses if the bottom of the bottom grade were done away with… Then it stands to reason the bottom grade
IS TODAY
putting off ownership by people who can’t afford a 35 or 40 rated animal? Yes or No Mike? There’d clearly be
"a market"
for grades lower than 7 if it were allowed.
It is true that owners, trainers and jockeys want low grade racing (as low as it is now). But (on the whole) does the customer/punter? How many people turn up at Kempton/Lingfield/Southwell for the poorest cards? Very few and very few on course bookmakers turn up because of it. For sure there are some off course punters, but the worse the racing gets the fewer punters/customers are interested.
Apart from compulsive gamblers – not convinced less racing would mean less money coming in to the Levy. There’s only so much money to spend and customers would just invest/gamble on other races.
Had I started out today don’t think I’d have got so interested in racingfull stop.
Fine for established racing enthusiasts, we know the good stuff is still there, but it’s diluted (percentage-wise).
Far less racing talk in the press these days. If I were a tabloid Editor I’d get p….d off with putting card after card after card in the paper that very few readers are interested in… It must put Editors off racing for one thing and if so much space goes to racecards there’s no room for a fair sized racing column.
If all football matches existed as they are today, only without any leagues (ie clubs would playonly
teams they’d meet in their leagues today but not in an official league, no points no nothing). So Man City would still play Chelsea but just in a one off game. No Champions League, no Premier, no Skrill Conference and no Sydenham Football League Wessex… Every match mixed together in press… Then would football be as popular as it is today?
Racing is too diluted and probably suffers in the press because of it. Therefore, Racing is probably not getting as much interest with the general public as it could.
Who benefits from a reduction in fixtures Mike?
Answer: Racing.
I agree Hong Kong is not a good comparisson, but what about Ireland? They don’t have a Tote monopoly and don’t even have racing every day of the week, yet racing seems popular.There is not ‘too much racing’ in the UK. There is the precise amount of racing the market dictates. When nobody wants to own, train, ride and bet on horses at the lower level, then these lesser races will disappear. Until then they will continue to provide grass-roots opportunities for thousands of racing people in all associated trades.
Mike
There is not ‘too much racing’ in the UK.
Returning, in a very convoluted way, to the original point of this thread: there is. The fact that AW attendances are so pitifully low proves it.
But if you believe owners would be put off buying horses if the bottom of the bottom grade were done away with… Then it stands to reason the bottom grade
IS TODAY
putting off ownership by people who can’t afford a 35 or 40 rated animal? Yes or No Mike? There’d clearly be
"a market"
for grades lower than 7 if it were allowed.
So a country with some of the very best racing in the World has a race to the bottom.
It is true that owners, trainers and jockeys want low grade racing (as low as it is now). But (on the whole) does the customer/punter? How many people turn up at Kempton/Lingfield/Southwell for the poorest cards? Very few and very few on course bookmakers turn up because of it. For sure there are some off course punters, but the worse the racing gets the fewer punters/customers are interested.
There is a greater proportion of compulsive gamblers betting on poorer grade racing than other types. If there is enough mug money in the shops it will never "disappear". That is not to say all punters who like it are mugs.
But as Gladiateur says, attendances for the poorest quality racing PROVES on course punters don’t want the poorest of racing. (See last paragraph for owners, trainers and jockeys).Apart from compulsive gamblers – not convinced less racing would mean less money coming in to the Levy. There’s only so much money to spend and customers would just invest/gamble on other races.
Wow! Bringing in that much eh. Let’s not jeopardise that then by trying something different.
Had I started out today don’t think I’d have got so interested in racing
full stop.
Fine for established racing enthusiasts, we know the good stuff is still there, but it’s diluted (percentage-wise).
Far less racing talk in the press these days. If I were a tabloid Editor I’d get p….d off with putting card after card after card in the paper that very few readers are interested in… It must put Editors off racing for one thing and if so much space goes to racecards there’s no room for a fair sized racing column.
Racing Post should not be included when talking about "press" in this sense. We are talking about whether too much poor grade racing is putting off newcomers getting enthused about Racing. Nobody buys a Racing Post before they are actually interested in Racing.
What general newspaper has as big a racing column on a normal week day than it did 30 years ago?
Some other major sports such as Cricket and Rugby are doing very well for column inches even with the "insatiable demands of Football".If all football matches existed as they are today, only without any leagues (ie clubs would play
only
teams they’d meet in their leagues today but not in an official league, no points no nothing). So Man City would still play Chelsea but just in a one off game. No Champions League, no Premier, no Skrill Conference and no Sydenham Football League Wessex… Every match mixed together in press… Then would football be as popular as it is today?
The analogy with our National game is about DILUTION Mike. If in the past all football matches were just listed in a Newspaper from A to B without leagues to differentiate them and no room for column inches to inform – potential newcomers to football may miss the better stuff entirely, so failing to be enthused about the game… Then football may not be so popular today.
Racing is too diluted and probably suffers in the press because of it. Therefore, Racing is probably not getting as much interest with the general public as it could.
Who benefits from a reduction in fixtures Mike?
Answer: Racing.Yes Mike, my "opinion". Just as you are giving your "opinion", it’s what this forum is about. Where is your "evidence" that your boring dilution is not adversely affecting the levy? The boring dilution that nobody wants to go and see.
By "Racing" read "Levy"… As in more money from an increase in punter numbers coming in to our sport. More money coming in to the levy than we’d lose from no lowest of the low grade.
I agree Hong Kong is not a good comparison, but what about Ireland? They don’t have a Tote monopoly and don’t even have racing every day of the week, yet racing seems popular.
You’re getting as bad as TAPK with your "!!". Every punter is an INDIVIDUAL Mike. Just because the UK has a larger population, does not mean any individual British punter needs a greater number of races than his/her Irish cousin. Percentage of Ireland’s population interested in racing is far greater than the UK’s, I would’ve thought anyone would want to look at ways of emulating that?
MikeApart from the top earners in their professions – trainers and jockeys will always want to earn money, primarily in this case by training and riding fees (prize money in this grade only secondary). Owners of the lowest grade of racehorse are just grateful to win a race (any race, no matter how bad) and so they should be. So rest assured, these races will never “disappear” if left to your own market forces.
Value Is EverythingG
inger , I know you like the last word
, as always , but in essence Mike summed it up perfectly in his last paragraph , now either you dont understand it or chose not to I am not sure , but its the truth , and very factual
There is not ‘too much racing’ in the UK. There is the precise amount of racing the market dictates. When nobody wants to own, train, ride and bet on horses at the lower level, then these lesser races will disappear. Until then they will continue to provide grass-roots opportunities for thousands of racing people in all associated trades.
In my opinion this is irrefutable , and even your ranting and raving apart you must realise that when the day comes that these guys say no more , dross racing will stop , until then the door is wide open
be that good or bad , its the way things are
im0
There is not ‘too much racing’ in the UK.
Returning, in a very convoluted way, to the original point of this thread: there is. The fact that AW attendances are so pitifully low proves it.
No, that’s irrelevant. These low-grade winter races have never been staged for the spectator, rather for the off-course punter and owners with modest horses.
Mike
Using the argument that if attendances are small, the meeting is surplus to requirements might have quite an impact on jump racing.
The official figures for January show that 11 NH meetings failed to attract a thousand spectators, with Newcastle remarkably managing just 626 through the gates for a Saturday afternoon fixture on Jan 4th.
Wolverhampton however got 1900 for a mundane twilight meeting last Friday, a figure beaten (but not by much) by only three NH courses for midweek racing during the month – Doncaster, Newbury and Wincanton.
There could be a part solution to the ‘problem’ for those of you who seem to despise low-grade racing so much. There should be tighter controls on which racehorses are allowed to become breeding stallions and the level of inbreeding which is permissible.
Obviously, there are arguments against this. Tight inbreeding can produce good animals (just look at how redneck Parish Hall’s line is for example), but it does lead to weaker, more injury prone animals with a greater quantity of dross.
Stallions who suffered many niggling injuries or retired due to serious injuries should also be struck off the stud books. Look at the likes of Footstepsinthesand. Most of his progeny can barely stand two seasons of racing without breaking down and missing a year! Stallions like this also produce more than their fair share of the patched-up, wonky donkeys who populate the all-weather racecards.
Apart from the top earners in their professions – trainers and jockeys will always want to earn money, primarily in this case by training and riding fees (prize money in this grade only secondary). Owners of the lowest grade of racehorse are just grateful to win a race (any race, no matter how bad) and so they should be. So rest assured, these races will never “disappear” if left to your own market forces.
Well ‘never’ is a long time so I wouldn’t necessarily agree with you. I believe there are already less runners on the AW than in previous years so you may well get your wish.
However, if the lower-end of racing is to be reduced then it should be precisely because of market forces rather than some act of self-vandalism predicated by the wild guess that having less racing will somehow encourage more people into the sport.
This is not "a race to the bottom" as you call it. It’s about having a healthy bottom rung of racing. It doesn’t affect the higher echelons of the sport one iota.
All you do by removing this bottom rung is make a lot of people unnecessarily unemployed, ruin a lot of businesses, reduce racing’s economic clout and probably shut a few racecourses into the bargain. All for absolutely no financial gain whatsoever.
Mike
Using the argument that if attendances are small, the meeting is surplus to requirements might have quite an impact on jump racing.
The official figures for January show that 11 NH meetings failed to attract a thousand spectators, with Newcastle remarkably managing just 626 through the gates for a Saturday afternoon fixture on Jan 4th.
Wolverhampton however got 1900 for a mundane twilight meeting last Friday, a figure beaten (but not by much) by only three NH courses for midweek racing during the month – Doncaster, Newbury and Wincanton.
There you go again bringing facts into things. You’ll be the death of some posters on here.
Mike
Using the argument that if attendances are small, the meeting is surplus to requirements might have quite an impact on jump racing.
The official figures for January show that 11 NH meetings failed to attract a thousand spectators, with Newcastle remarkably managing just 626 through the gates for a Saturday afternoon fixture on Jan 4th.
Wolverhampton however got 1900 for a mundane twilight meeting last Friday, a figure beaten (but not by much) by only three NH courses for midweek racing during the month – Doncaster, Newbury and Wincanton.
And I’ve no problem with poorly attended jumps fixtures or turf flat meetings being axed, either. There is too much racing, full stop.
However, this thread is about the AW in particular and my original point, that it has clearly reached saturation point, still stands.
Not that I wish to defend all-weather racing but only 3,000 turned up to sandown last Saturday.
I think the fall in attendence can partly be put down to the fact you can watch every race live from your armchair these days…Or that most racegoers weren’t going to make the journey with at least a strong possibility (or even probability) of it being called off.
Value Is EverythingIs there any wonder that attendances are slumping at AW meetings, when there is ANOTHER meeting at Southwell with a long delay between races!!
I know that the right thing has to be done taking an injured jockey to hospital, but surely out of the levy that the course receives another doctor could be paid to be on standby.
I think the course is reaching a stage where it should be free admission at all but a few bank holiday and Sunday meetings. It’s hardly worth employing gate staff for the few hundred that attend and the couple of thousand that they generate.
There have been races at Southwell where none of the runners have been trying with some jockeys whipping horses other than their own to drive them to the front.
It’s reached a farcical point, only an idiot would bet at Southwell even from the comfort of their home.
There have been races at Southwell where none of the runners have been trying with some jockeys whipping horses other than their own to drive them to the front.
It’s reached a farcical point, only an idiot would bet at Southwell even from the comfort of their home.
I don’t know why I’m asking you this as you never answer questions put to you but, please tell us which races and jockeys are concerned ? Oh no you can’t because it’s just another one of your absurd statements without any basis in fact.
A lot of all weather punters will tell you that Southwell is the most profitable track to bet at. I’m sure you wouldn’t understand why though.
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