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Can anyone shed any light on my perception that O’Brien and the boys are running their horses more often than they used to ?
I have no statistics to back up this line of thought but it appears to me that this may be the case, and appears to be more pronounced with regard to the training of fillies in particular.
Happy to have my perceptions either confirmed or disproved.I think you may be right Coggy. They certainly seem to be taking each other on much more this year than in other ones. The Irish Champion being a case in point.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
A lot of it is to do with supporting Irish racing. They could have easily run minding and highland reel in France and picked up two group ones but coolmore seemed to feel obliged to support races like the Irish champion which turned out to be the best field this season. Also they have a lot more older horses than usual due to some of last season’s 3yo having had niggly injuries. We are likely to see the likes of Idaho,minding and seventh heaven for next season so aiden will have a strong hand in middle distance races. Also coolmore have an unbelievable amount of top fillies mainly Galileo’s so they will inevitably clash. Could be aiden is having a bigger input than before as he seems to be saying a lot less of the lads deciding and seems to have long term plans for most horses. I often wonder if aiden would win more big races if he had control of plans for the horses.
Can anyone shed any light on my perception that O’Brien and the boys are running their horses more often than they used to ?
I have no statistics to back up this line of thought but it appears to me that this may be the case, and appears to be more pronounced with regard to the training of fillies in particular.
Happy to have my perceptions either confirmed or disproved.Try racing post website, gives break down, over the decades as to all the horses etc.
Stats say he has ran way more in Britain this year, and it is not even October. He has the title in the bag since York Week
Even in Ireland, he seems to be running the 2 year olds a little more
Highland Reel himself has been somewhat , flogged.
Seriously tough, without them in Ireland, there turn out would be poorer for the prestige of the group races. Bolger has gone quite and Weld is doing his thing but not really with the younger horses except Harzand.
A lot of it is to do with supporting Irish racing. They could have easily run minding and highland reel in France and picked up two group ones but coolmore seemed to feel obliged to support races like the Irish champion which turned out to be the best field this season. Also they have a lot more older horses than usual due to some of last season’s 3yo having had niggly injuries. We are likely to see the likes of Idaho,minding and seventh heaven for next season so aiden will have a strong hand in middle distance races. Also coolmore have an unbelievable amount of top fillies mainly Galileo’s so they will inevitably clash. Could be aiden is having a bigger input than before as he seems to be saying a lot less of the lads deciding and seems to have long term plans for most horses. I often wonder if aiden would win more big races if he had control of plans for the horses.
The way you talk about the Irish Champions Stakes, whether intentionally or not, is that it is of some inconvenience or just a mickey mouse group 1. Obliged to run? You see the prize money it now gets? Ranked pretty high up, top 7 in the Longines top 100 races. It is THE perfect prep ride for the Arc. O’Brien has not won it since 2010, and boy they have tried since. Pretty good turn out for that race in both 2013 (despite the ground) 2014 and 2015.
Out of the current bunch this year, both Highland Reel, even if he really is a 12 f horse, Found and Minding had legitimate chances and had merit to be in the IC this year.You could not be entirely sure as to who out of those three (well, between Found and Minding) who would win. Look who won the Epsom Oaks in 2015 (okay, not a Coolmore Horse) but it was Aidan’s.
As for the other Irish races , which I assume you were really talking about, well they are Irish, can’t always be flying over to Britain or France. Money is good for the Irish Classics, which, O’Brien only won 1 this year!
I will be surprised if Minding does train on, but great if she doesNot really sure what other big races they could possibly win even if the lads are not as vocal in the decision making. They have done pretty damn good on the global front for years, their decision making can hardly be faulted.
Wonder did the debacle of Gleneagles and O’Brien’s desire not to run him at QEII (it was so not his decision) put an input to that? Or was it his treats of taking a back seat last year at the Ascot festival (or was that at York?)
In the last two years , they have been more picky as to what races they run their horses. Previously they would throw in no hopers into Group 1 races , horses that could have a better chance at the group 2 and 3 races at Ascot. No mob handing even those races. One race, one horse.
Not belittling the Irish champion just stating that they could well have won more group races than they have if they didn’t race so many in the samevraces. 3 in the moyglare,3 in the Beresford etc. Aiden does seem more at ease these days,by aidenss standards,and he just seem to have plans ready more than last year. The amount of good fillies they have is amazing so no surprise to see them clash. Interesting to see who goes to Chantilly,champions day and the breeders cup. Its great they have do many older horses like highland reel it really adds to the big races.
Not belittling the Irish champion just stating that they could well have won more group races than they have if they didn’t race so many in the samevraces. 3 in the moyglare,3 in the Beresford etc. Aiden does seem more at ease these days,by aidenss standards,and he just seem to have plans ready more than last year. The amount of good fillies they have is amazing so no surprise to see them clash. Interesting to see who goes to Chantilly,champions day and the breeders cup. Its great they have do many older horses like highland reel it really adds to the big races.
Moyglare is an important Group 1 for 2 year olds, in Ireland. Their first choice horse did not win, so it would have been too late to curse themselves and wish they threw in another one of their horses.Of course, neither of Aidan’s won
Well, not completely true, the wife use to own her. Sure Brave Anna went on to win the Cheveley at 6 furlongs (never won at 7f) What harm did it do to here?As you know, he did the same last year (and the year before -Found) , Ballydoyle had bet Minding in the race before, Minding wins this, and Alice Springs has done well this year. If he had other horses that already won a group race eg Ascot or placed, then they deserve to be in something like the Moyglare, even if it means that they meet each other. As you know, there are three or four different owner’s colours. I assume both Magnier, Tabor and Smith all would like their nominated horse to be running?
I do not disagree with you, I pointed that out with regard to selections at Ascot in the last two years .What other races, at that time of the year was there (September)? Why would he run a few at Donny (he does) when he has to be in Ireland to run the show at Irish Champions Day? Some of this horses ran in the French Group 1 and later of course the British Group 1 race on Future Champions Day. There are only so many Group races in Ireland .
Henry Cecil was not a keen lover of International racing , compared to say, Gosden or Stoute. Granted he did not have many bullets and heavily relied upon his stars in Midday, Twice Over and Frankel for his fantastic success in the UK. He saw that there was enough in the British programme . He could have prepared Frankel for the Irish Champions Stakes , Arc or something in the Breeders Cup (Juddmonte LOVE the BC and have yet to win the 12f race, Classic or the mile (not sure about that race) No, he wanted to support the then new British Champions Day Series that clearly was created with Frankel in mind -or just fantastic timing. One thing that the naysayers might have with Frankel, his success alone upped the British prize money. Compare the money for the QEII in 2010 to that of 2011 and onwards. Peanuts in comparison. Likewise the British Champions Stakes – Enough to give a trainer a serious chance of the Trainers Title if he has horses that run well in both.
He was prepared to sacrifice a chance of another Breeders Cup success in 2011 with Midday (though she went for the Turf racing that trying to retain the Filly and Mares race) in order to run in the BC despite Twice Over who looked to be fading, beating her and her not winning a race with the boys (though he was gunning for a chance of winning the Trainers Title, one can’t blame him)
Well, not completely true, the wife use to own her. Sure Brave Anna went on to win the Cheveley at 6 furlongs (never won at 7f) What harm did it do to here?- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.