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If Timeform took the view that they had seen an absolutely outstanding two-year-old how could they reflect that other than by giving it an appropriate rating?
Do you do your own ratings,The Market Man? Are there any calculations, for example, behind your statement that Electrocutionist and Heart’s Cry "should be rated somewhere in the mid to late 120s"? If you do your own ratings, how did you assess Celtic Swing’s Racing Post Trophy win at the time (and not with the benefit of hindsight)?
Quote: from thedarkknight on 4:33 pm on July 29, 2006[br]Another poor ride from Dettori imo
The horse is hanging left, yet he still whips him with his right hand and opens the door for Hurricane Run.<br>
I thought Soumillon was a very lucky man yesterday. As the race took shape he was outflanked first by Dettori and then by Lemaire and contrived to get well and truly boxed-in. It was only Dettori’s subsequent error coupled with the courage and ability of Hurricane Run that got him out of trouble. The subsequent posing after the finish was entirely predictable. He should learn a little humility.
Gus,
Soumillion is quoted today in the Sunday Times as saying he did not want to unbalance HR on the home turn allowing himself to be outflanked. I understand what you say but once HR found room he did have the best turn of foot and won on merit.
Kevin, I totally agree that the horse won on merit. I just think the jockey was poor.
<br>Another poor ride from Dettori imo <br>
disagree
the horse had nothing left to give
and it was no where near a poor ride as he gave the noseda junevile in the first
agree with market man re celltic swing he won a race that was in bog like conditions which give rise to large winning distances against a horse that clearly struggled to handle the conditions
the only ability celtic swing had was he could handle both extremes of going
compare that with hr yesterday who i think won despite not liking the ground against 2 horses who clearly handled the ground better than him
making excuses for the 2nd and 3rd is a waste of time
Quote: from guskennedy on 9:23 am on July 30, 2006[br]If Timeform took the view that they had seen an absolutely outstanding two-year-old how could they reflect that other than by giving it an appropriate rating?
Do you do your own ratings,The Market Man? Are there any calculations, for example, behind your statement that Electrocutionist and Heart’s Cry "should be rated somewhere in the mid to late 120s"? If you do your own ratings, how did you assess Celtic Swing’s Racing Post Trophy win at the time (and not with the benefit of hindsight)?<br>
<br>Gus I don’t know where you’re going to go with this but if you’re going to persist in trying to justify Celtic Swings 138 rating you’re going to go round in circles it just isn’t justifyable. Celtic Swing was a good two year old and probably should’ve been given a rating of around 121. When you look at his best rating achieved as a three year old 127 it makes perfect sense.
138 is a rating on a par with Nijinsky and above the likes of Montjeu, Troy, Dayjur, El Gran Senor ……………………………………………
It’s not just innacurate it’s plain silly.
It was fairly predictable to be honest.
What more could you ask for…simply because there was no three year old….does that mean to cannot appreciate the race still? Because everyone else seems to on here and in the press. One of the great King Georges to watch I have seen.
Quote: from Aidan on 3:49 pm on July 30, 2006[br]
It was fairly predictable to be honest.
What more could you ask for…simply because there was no three year old….does that mean to cannot appreciate the race still? Because everyone else seems to on here and in the press. One of the great King Georges to watch I have seen.
<br>The King George is meant to bring the generations together. This could’ve been any run of the mill group one that’s why I’m dissapointed in the race. Good job Hurricane Run took his chance or it would’ve gone down as one of the worst King George renewals in history. Good race in terms of the race on the day but a very poor field in terms of substance and what the race is meant to be about.
Whatever the press say mate I’m entitled to my opinion I don’t jump on bandwagons or agree with general opinion all the time and my personal opinion is that is was very disappointing King George.
<br>(Edited by The Market Man at 4:21 pm on July 30, 2006)<br>
(Edited by The Market Man at 4:26 pm on July 30, 2006)
In the KG, you want to see the best 3yos take on the best older horses & mares. What we got yesterday was a field lacking in strength in depth despite the presence of an Arc winner.
The stats say the field for the KG is seldom big but it is often top quality. Electrocutionist is best on dirt and Heart’s Cry may well have needed the race. The fourth, Enforcer, is exposed as a 118 horse so the winner will have run short of the ‘par’ of 126 for a true G1 winner.
And it was a slow race.
Add in the unnecessarily frequent and misplaced use of the whip by the winning jockey and his pathetic gestures immediately afterwards and this was hardly a good advert for the sport.
Quote: from Maurice on 5:00 pm on July 30, 2006[br]Electrocutionist is best on dirt
Not so sure I agree with that Maurice. He is 2 from 2 on dirt but I think it’s the track that is most important to him. He takes a while to hit top gear and I don’t think Ascot, with it’s shortish run-in, suits him very well. He had plenty of time (and distance) at Nad al Sheba and at York last year in the home straight to gather himself and duly won his race. Just my opinion of course!
While on the subject of Electrocutionist, was I seeing things or did he attempt to take a bite out of Heart’s Cry inside the final furlong? Didn’t tape the race so would like some reassurance i’m not going mad.
Except Lammtarra
Quote: from andyod on 6:33 pm on July 30, 2006[br]No 3yo in recent times has won the KG and gone on the same season to better things.<br>
Quote: from Librettist on 7:15 pm on July 30, 2006[br]While on the subject of Electrocutionist, was I seeing things or did he attempt to take a bite out of Heart’s Cry inside the final furlong? Didn’t tape the race so would like some reassurance i’m not going mad.<br>
No, you weren’t seeing things. Jason Weaver, to his credit, drew attention to this on ATR in addition to criticising the performance of Soumillon.
(Edited by guskennedy at 7:44 pm on July 30, 2006)
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