- This topic has 791 replies, 32 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 5 months ago by
.
- Posts
Hello, thought I’d add another Australian voice to the discussion.
Going back to the very first post on this thread, Lloyd Williams has Martial Law nominated for a 1500m race at Sandown (Melbourne) on Saturday. I see that he scored ok in Gerald’s dosage analysis. Do you guys know much about him or have any other thoughts?
From the way the Melbourne Cup is run, and the dosage figures of the winners, it seems that what is required is what we Brits may consider to be a 10f horse. Don’t take that as gospel though, I’m new to all this stuff.
Don’t know anything about Martial Law – the wrong side of the English Channel. Maximum Racing Post Rating was 99, so it would have to improve a little bit to get into the Melbourne Cup field, and the trainer that it would have to be improved from is Andre Fabre . . .
By comparison, Speed Gifted had 5 Racing Post Ratings in the range 109-114 before he went to Australia, so it would seem that Speed Gifted is 10-15 lbs better than Martial Law.
I disagree to an extent Gerald.
The genuine stayers have all flopped out here – Yeats, Double Trigger, Drum Taps…
I reckon the ideal horse is a 12f-14f sort of horse, so a horse effective from 2400m to 2800m.
But you need more than that, you need a horse who is used to not only handicap racing, but to racing in big fields.
And you need a horse that isn’t one paced.
- Total Posts 17716
A few overly simplistic generalisations there I think Andy.
Vintage Crop was a genuine stayer. Maybe not a Champion who was handicapped to the hilt but he sure was a genuine stayer who ran in three Gold Cups placing twice. He proved that genuine stayers can win and that horses can take the race without a prep Downunder.
Handicapping and race load are the keys for mine when picking out UK horses for the Aussie Cups. Many top class horses have reached Oz in less than peak condition and then had to carry huge imposts. Double Trigger was a tired animal running on unsuitable ground. Drum Taps was carrying injury and never should have started. I doubt any runner in Yeats losing effort could have come to England in the middle of a UK summer and beaten him at level weights over two miles on Good to Firm ground. In fact they probably wouldn’t have been able to blow steam up his butthole. Fallon’s ride in the MC on Yeats was also very poor.
Let’s play every horse on its merits. To describe top class horses as one paced when tired at the end of a season is a bit one dimensional. It’s also untrue. There’s also a concern that horses need Aussie pilots to win. They are as error prone as any for mine.
- Total Posts 17716
Delta Blues was also a "real stayer". His best form was all around 3000m.
Fair enough, I see your point, it is just what I look at when trying to find which overseas horses to look at. It was why my main bet was Mourilyan last year.
- Total Posts 17716
Now what about some news on the condition of Bart Cummings. I hear he’s been in hospital for weeks with pneumonia and the family have kept it quiet. Get well soon Bart. His loss would have a massive impact Downunder.
Thanks for that Gerald. Speed Gifted was also a year older when he came out, so we’ll just have to see what natural improvement there is in Martial Law.
I know Andy loves Bart so I won’t speak ill of the ill, except to say that I thought he would have gone to his stables for treatment rather than the hospital – they have better chemists at Leilani Lodge than at St Vincent’s!
I should have guessed who you were Tedwah.
We are members of the same Australian forum, yes?
Yes, I’m probably Bart’s biggest fan
Craig Williams will partner top galloper Jaguar Mail in the 3200m Tenno Sho on May 2 at Kyoto.
All adds to the gaiety of nations. Won’t read much into it, regarding the Melbourne Cup, but at least it creates a point of interest for the Japanese race.
Here is an update on Lloyd Williams’ imports from The Age.
(Muir is the renamed Johann Zoffany)
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horserac … -tfz8.html
THREE-YEAR-OLD Rundle may be the new Melbourne Cup talking point if he takes out Sunday’s St Leger Stakes at Flemington as is expected, but owner Lloyd Williams does not always measure success by victory alone.
For while Rundle can stake his claim as a stayer of the future in the 2800-metre event, 35 minutes after he runs, Williams will keenly watch three stayers imported from England, who will make their debuts in the owner’s familiar colours in an unsuitable 1200-metre race.
Williams is always realistic when he assesses his horses and he said yesterday that he did not expect the imported trio Grand Ducal, Muir and Martial Law to trouble the field of local sprinters in the Kokoda Track Handicap.
But Sunday’s Australian debut for the three lightly raced horses still ranks as an important step in his quest for the 150th Melbourne Cup this November. ”They were bought as 3200-metre horses and so they won’t be a factor in that race on Saturday, but it’s about getting them acclimatised,” the owner said. ”They might just have the one run and be turned out again but it will serve them in the long term well I think.”
Earlier this week, four-year-old gelding Stillman was the first to step out on Australian soil of ”a dozen or so” European-born and raced stayers that Williams purchased late last year with an eye to winning a fourth Melbourne Cup.
He finished a credible second over 1400 metres at Betfair Park on Wednesday in what Williams described as an encouraging effort.
He plans to unleash several more of his European stock over the next few weeks, including his highest-rated gallopers Alandi and Mourayan. Alandi is a dual group-1 winner in England and France last season while Mourayan is group-1 placed and is the half-brother to Mourilyan, who, among his many fine international performances, ran third in last year’s Melbourne Cup.
As for Rundle, who has won three of his four starts to date, Williams toyed with the idea of waiting another week and running him in the SA Derby at Morphettville. ”But I’d rather run him at Flemington. I am very parochial. I’m Melbourne through and through.”
Williams has changed his focus in an attempt to win another Melbourne Cup. Not only did he turn to Europe in an attempt to find the right sort of stayer, he is now relying heavily on the stallion Galileo. For more than a decade, Williams has relied on the Zabeel stock to supply him with his Melbourne Cup hopefuls.
But now the Coolmore-owned Galileo has taken over as the main source of the owner’s racing stock, with nearly 30 horses by Galileo under the Williams banner, including the promising Australian-bred Rundle and Linton, as well as Muir, Martial Law and Alandi.
Galileo’s credentials as a stallion are unmatched. A winner of the English and Irish derbies in 2001, he is by Sadler’s Wells and his dam Urban Sea also produced Sea The Stars, possibly the best racehorse in Europe for more than 20 years.
It will be fun if Zarkava reads this thread. . . . he chucks Galileos out of Derby consideration . . .
If Lloyd is on the right path, it will be even more interesting to see how the Galileo – Makybe Diva colt turns out.
Andy, yep, this is Ted from TBV
Fantastic, at least you know your stuff
unlike a few TBV forumites at the moment…I can’t wait to see Alandi and Mourayan step out, I’m not sure if Alandi will be suited here but I reckon Mourayan will be.
unlike a few TBV forumites at the moment…- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.