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I think it’s a very big price that you believe this, Nause (I’ll probably buy at 16/1!) but I must have had more than 50 shop bets of 3, 4 and 5 figures referred to me yesterday. Granted, it was Goodwood, but I approved every single one.
The most common reason I have for knocking something back is arbing – it’s the truth. It’s incredible how often a shop punter’s diligent form research suddenly makes them find the one that dips under on Betfair at that exact moment.
Believe it? I live it. As Drone just correctly commented… You do not actually close accounts… You restrict them to the point of basically telling us to ‘go away’. Do you want to know how many Corals accounts I’ve had over the years in other peoples names? LOL Nah I better not… Every single one got restricted. Every single one without any fail or exceptions. The responses from your own staff are the funniest when this happens… They speak honestly about the situation sometimes…
I’ll reiterate… I’ve never ‘arbed’, I’ve never bonus abused.. I back win only, only one horse per race… Only one or two bets a day… Normally only on a Sat or mid week festivals. I don’t touch bad racing. Normally in a price range of 7-2 too 12-1. I will back up to £500 if I can get it on in bits, I’m not a monster by any stretch. But I do win and I normally always beat SP… Why have literally countless Corals accounts been restricted then? Please tell me I’m all ears.
Nause, I believe any operator of FOBTs, online casino games, poker machines etc needs their Random Number Generator (RNG) to be scrutinised by the regulator. Every operator must prove that their game offers the odds that they claim to offer. If they don’t (see the Ultimate Poker/Absolute Poker scandal), they get found out rather quickly. That’s why I made the roulette comparison – if you spin a European roulette wheel and play red/black or evens/odds you stand something like a 48.6% chance against the house’s 51.4% every spin. In the long run, you’re going to bleed off to the house and stand to lose £1.40 from every £100 staked.
FOBTs offering casino games must offer the same odds. People don’t lose on FOBTs because the machines are rigged or deceptive in any way – they lose because the games have inbuilt house edge just like they do at the casino.
From the picture you paint of yourself Nause (apart from the multiple accounts!) you do sound like a stand-up punter and I wouldn’t restrict you myself with that profile, nor would any of the people who trained me. I have suffered myself in a similar way – in fact recently baffled to lose my bet365 despite always playing with a straight bat, only ever betting from home and generally betting win-only.
I wonder if a few decent accounts are ‘caught in the crossfire’ due to the beat SP%. There are a lot of shameless arbers out there who don’t even look at the form book and just pick off anything that dips under on Betfair. I wonder if systems automation or poor training of account marking teams at major bookmakers often leads to confusion between genuinely shrewd straight punters and arb robots because of the beat %. Odds compilers don’t do account marking, we’ve got far too much other stuff to look at. If you’ve got people without such a great understanding of racing looking at accounts out of context, that does seem likely to cause bad decisions.
For example, I could look at anyone who backed Stradivarius in the morning yesterday and know the SP was beaten because Big Orange was extremely weak before the off (BSP 3.00 when we were top price Evs in the grids!) and everything else tightened up. I’d know that those early Stradivarius bets were totally straight – it was a good quality race, no price concerns etc. In contrast, I wonder if some intern sitting in a hut in Gibraltar with no understanding of the context would look at that price taken v SP and hoist the red flag.
It’s not my area and maybe I’m doing those teams a disservice but it does seem like a legitimate cause for concern and might explain some of the baffling account closures we all hear about.But I do win and I normally always beat SP… Why have literally countless Corals accounts been restricted then? Please tell me I’m all ears.
I think you’ll find you answered your own question in your first sentence.
There’s an awful lot wrong with the way punters are treated by many bookmakers, but I have no problem with any company shutting down a customer who regularly takes money from them. I’d do the same in that position, as would Nausered and anyone else who wanted to remain in business.
Nause, I believe any operator of FOBTs, online casino games, poker machines etc needs their Random Number Generator (RNG) to be scrutinised by the regulator. Every operator must prove that their game offers the odds that they claim to offer. If they don’t (see the Ultimate Poker/Absolute Poker scandal), they get found out rather quickly. That’s why I made the roulette comparison – if you spin a European roulette wheel and play red/black or evens/odds you stand something like a 48.6% chance against the house’s 51.4% every spin. In the long run, you’re going to bleed off to the house and stand to lose £1.40 from every £100 staked.
FOBTs offering casino games must offer the same odds. People don’t lose on FOBTs because the machines are rigged or deceptive in any way – they lose because the games have inbuilt house edge just like they do at the casino.
Ah the same regulator that now regulates PokerStars UK… If you think online MTT poker is totally legit/randomised… Well, that’s just silliness. Are you asking me to believe… That despite man trying to have one over on his fellow man, since the dawn of mankind… That online/computerised games/gambling is all straight and legit? That FOBT’s are always on the legal payout? Mankind just changed with Corals and the rest of the British bookmaking industry then… LOL come on mate. Remember, I know the ins and outs of it all, gambling I mean. I’ve taken peoples houses literally across a felted table, watched gamblers destroy themselves. You’re in the business to earn money… Computerisation made that far easier, with far less risk if any for you. This is why you no longer see horse racing and punters like me as viable. You now play to the lowest common denominators in society, I know that… You know that… The game has now been set up that way.
But I do win and I normally always beat SP… Why have literally countless Corals accounts been restricted then? Please tell me I’m all ears.
I think you’ll find you answered your own question in your first sentence.
There’s an awful lot wrong with the way punters are treated by many bookmakers, but I have no problem with any company shutting down a customer who regularly takes money from them. I’d do the same in that position, as would Nausered and anyone else who wanted to remain in business.
Steeplechasing… The whole point of a wager, is one side offering odds, and the other side, if liking those odds… Taking them for a matched bet of an agreed sum. Information is golden for both sides… Well the sides got so far distorted with the advent of the internet… It’s akin to legal theft for them.
Computerisation has allowed the bookmakers to see anyone who might be any sort of danger to them, even very slight… And remove them. So they only play with people who lose… Nice gig if you can get it. If you think this is sporting, in the spirit of what a bet constitutes between two parties… Then I’m honestly shocked. They should have their licences removed. I run a business in manufacturing, and then sell the product to the public myself, I don’t get to say to the people who don’t spend much on our website… Go away I don’t like you… I only like people who spend a fortune… I would be shut down pretty quick or lose all of my customers. It’s exactly the same thing in reverse.
From the picture you paint of yourself Nause (apart from the multiple accounts!) you do sound like a stand-up punter and I wouldn’t restrict you myself with that profile, nor would any of the people who trained me. I have suffered myself in a similar way – in fact recently baffled to lose my bet365 despite always playing with a straight bat, only ever betting from home and generally betting win-only.
I wonder if a few decent accounts are ‘caught in the crossfire’ due to the beat SP%. There are a lot of shameless arbers out there who don’t even look at the form book and just pick off anything that dips under on Betfair. I wonder if systems automation or poor training of account marking teams at major bookmakers often leads to confusion between genuinely shrewd straight punters and arb robots because of the beat %. Odds compilers don’t do account marking, we’ve got far too much other stuff to look at. If you’ve got people without such a great understanding of racing looking at accounts out of context, that does seem likely to cause bad decisions.
For example, I could look at anyone who backed Stradivarius in the morning yesterday and know the SP was beaten because Big Orange was extremely weak before the off (BSP 3.00 when we were top price Evs in the grids!) and everything else tightened up. I’d know that those early Stradivarius bets were totally straight – it was a good quality race, no price concerns etc. In contrast, I wonder if some intern sitting in a hut in Gibraltar with no understanding of the context would look at that price taken v SP and hoist the red flag.
It’s not my area and maybe I’m doing those teams a disservice but it does seem like a legitimate cause for concern and might explain some of the baffling account closures we all hear about.I am a stand up punter. I’ve had accounts with bet365 and others for many years. I’m sure they use me as Coral used to on a Sat morning, even if they have not got my real name…. To me, they (bet365) are the best around right now. Coral, PaddyPower, laterally William Hills. You’ve all gone the same way. What’s funny, is if I want to go load £5-£50k on Coral casino… You’ll let me play in an instant. Why is that? If it’s all straight and legit, and I have just as much chance of winning as I do at the horses? Why will your firm let me play £50k if I want on a computerised game, but will not take a £25 bet from me on a horse. It answers itself Lostsoldier3 so you don’t need to mate.
Thing is, most people are clueless to it all, they just love a bet. It maybe good business for you lot… But for people like me, it forms a real hatred of what you do LostSoldier3.
I’m sorry I called you scum, you yourself are not scum at all. But, when I hear you trying to justify it all, by calling punters the sort of conmen which your industry in fact are at the very forefront of, it makes me angry enough to sign in and post.
I’d bet my life on the PokerStars RNG being completely legit, Nausered. Are you saying you wouldn’t?
It’s taking things off topic I know, so feel free to DM me, but I’d love to know your reasons.
Also really interested to know how you feel about Black Type and how they have been in your experience.
but I have no problem with any company shutting down a customer who regularly takes money from them. I’d do the same in that position, as would Nausered and anyone else who wanted to remain in business.
Business is a risk Joe, if you are risk averse then you don’t open a bloody bookmakers do you ? If the policy of multi million / billion pound turnover companies have a policy of limiting winning long term punters regardless of stakes, then they should disclose this policy before registration.
Please, please don’t bet your life on that LS. High\low stakes cash games… As random and legit as you like… MTT… It’s rigged to speed the game up. Big stack wins with worst hand. It’s on a clock. Do I avoid PS? No, I see the system and use it to my advantage…I’m a winning PS MTT player. But as someone who can count through six decks… Please don’t try to tell me it’s random. Because it’s not.
Increase rake by speeding up the game…
LostSoldier3,
I stumbled across this thread earlier about you and your fellow koral odds compilers, don’t know whether you wish to comment about the content?
https://www.community.betfair.com/horse_racing/go/thread/view/94102/30901241/korals-odds-compilers
Thanks to Hex for showing me how to view the Betfair forum without an account!
I don’t know much about football and know even less about trading it, so I can’t really tell you anything about the way those boys do their jobs. Sorry.
I don’t know much about football and know even less about trading it, so I can’t really tell you anything about the way those boys do their jobs. Sorry.
From such a poor response young fella your genuineness needs to be questioned. As you well know only a small percentage of posts on that thread concern football.
Are you incapable of replying to any of the accusations or observations about Corals pathetic lack of backbone on the thread?What about the observation that you carefully monitor Betfair and make sure that you are under their odds whatever? Sort of contradicts the accusation you made that punters who attempt to beat the exchange price are cheats. How do the punters manage it when clearly the cheats and thieves are in Coral Towers?
I find the Betfair Forum extremely toxic, yeats – hence why I got myself banned all those years ago! It’s friendlier here. I must admit I didn’t want to waste my time looking beyond the first few posts as it was already starting to make my toes curl but the main question was about football markets and competitiveness, right?
You and your emotive language! I don’t understand how your latest question and your conclusion go together. If that was the case and bookies were going out of their way to avoid laying mindless arbs, wouldn’t you conclude that people trying to play ‘fastest finger first’ against the trader are…if not ‘cheats’ at least doing something that is totally not cricket?
what i don’t get (not just corals) is they price up a fight(love a bet on the boxing) they are first up so I go into the shop and want a bet on fighter x at so and so price. They ring it up and say sorry sir cant take that bet(even if its for peanuts) with the excuse of traders decision, surely though those prices were their traders decision .Books now just don’t trust their so called odds compilers/traders
Wouldn’t you conclude that people trying to play ‘fastest finger first’ against the trader are…if not ‘cheats’ at least doing something that is totally not cricket?
What about when i told you about the 10/1 for AOB to break the Group 1 world record, you went straight away and put your max on it you said. You don’t mind doing it yourself, but when punters do it they are bordering on being criminals.
You know what Microsoft used to do, and probably still do? They challenged computer hackers to attempt to break into the latest security systems. If they succeeded did they take them to court for punishment ? No they employed them, they are very clever over at Microsoft
It’s not my area and maybe I’m doing those teams a disservice but it does seem like a legitimate cause for concern and might explain some of the baffling account closures we all hear about.
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