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Henry doesn’t need Frankel to go beyond a mile. He has picture editor for that
Is that a White flag you"re waving already Wallace? He will never be a legend if he doesn"t get a 11/2m!
Meh….he would stay 1m4f if put in the suitable grade.
He could win the Derby….its becoming a farcial pace wise race the past few years. Half the field won’t handle the track and not exactly the longest straight and going down the dip can mask a horse’s true stamina.
Henry doesn’t think he will so he won’t
Fist, I honestly do prefer to have Casamento and Pathfork, and have let my money do the talking, I haven’t got a penny on Frankel, and won’t until perhaps the day, if he is a similar price. I currently have £20 on Casamento and Pathfork, and in doubles with Together and Memory in the 1000 guineas.
I spent last winter dreaming about St.Nichlaus Abbey and Dunguib. It got me by the Winter and early Spring but no more. Never again will I let myself be swept away with the 2yo or novice form of horses.Once bitten……… But since the winter is pretty bad over there you can do it . But not Fist you don’t need to dream away the winter snow.
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You’re making less sense than normal, Fist, which really takes some doing.
You are willing to accept Jim Bolger’s word – he’s never been dishonest after all (cheek; from the ancient celtic meaning ‘home of the tongue’) – that Glor Na Mara wasn’t himself when hammered by Pathfork, but aren’t prepared to accept that Dream Ahead ran below form in the Dewhurst? Similarly, you’re quick to defend Tom Queally’s opinion yet you saw fit to bring William Buick’s in to question when he described Dream Ahead as "unbelievable"?
Can you not just say ‘I’ve lumped on Frankel and will therefore only acknowledge the opinions of the like-minded’ and be done with it?
Theme park rides are less dizzying than your ‘logic’.
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I heard that!! what did you just call me?
I like your passion Fist.you are a valued contributor to this forum in my opinion! History shows that you know **** all about flat racing where as my good self is a bit of a legend!
Modesty forbids and that! Between us we probably have 100yrs knowledge of horses,25yrs of mine,the rest from your good self! 
On this occassion we have an opinion of a horse that is miles apart,i respect what he has achieved at 2,my concern is what he does at 3 and in my opinion he will fail! Frankel fails miserably in the looks department alone. Zafonic, El Gran senor, Dancing Brave, Nashwan, Kings Best, George Washington all had the X factor in looks, Nah i"m afraid your confidence in this horse is becoming obsessive and i"m prepared to put my neck on the line to say so! By the way i still haven"t had a bet in the race as Dream Ahead has spoiled his copybook and the excuses are baffling!Would that be the History that had me touting Workforce for the Derby, Workforce for the Arc, Zenyatta for the Breeders, Zarkava for the Arc, Canford Cliffs as a super horse and now Frankel.
You have to get over the fact I was right about Frankel totally correct on Dream Ahead and you got it wrong again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It’s not a tipping cometion you know it’s only opinions.Get over it.
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You’re making less sense than normal, Fist, which really takes some doing.
You are willing to accept Jim Bolger’s word – he’s never been dishonest after all (cheek; from the ancient celtic meaning ‘home of the tongue’) – that Glor Na Mara wasn’t himself when hammered by Pathfork, but aren’t prepared to accept that Dream Ahead ran below form in the Dewhurst? Similarly, you’re quick to defend Tom Queally’s opinion yet you saw fit to bring William Buick’s in to question when he described Dream Ahead as "unbelievable"?
Can you not just say ‘I’ve lumped on Frankel and will therefore only acknowledge the opinions of the like-minded’ and be done with it?
Theme park rides are less dizzying than your ‘logic’.
I wouldn’t rule out Dunboyne Express. He’s done very well to date and certainly hasn’t been seen to his full potential yet. He beat Roderic O’Connor 5 lengths on his debut and then improved on his next start to win an easy 8 lengths hammering bench markers like Glor Na Mara and Samuel Morse.
Horses do great things at 2 so often, Xaar, New Approach, Rainbow View, St Nicholas Abbey etc and don’t come back and win a Guineas. If Frankel turns up and wins then I won’t begrudge it, would be good to see if he can go on from what he has done at 2 but there is a fair chance he won’t also, and taking the odds for next years race right now is insanity.
- Total Posts 17716
You’re making less sense than normal, Fist, which really takes some doing.
You are willing to accept Jim Bolger’s word – he’s never been dishonest after all (cheek; from the ancient celtic meaning ‘home of the tongue’) – that Glor Na Mara wasn’t himself when hammered by Pathfork, but aren’t prepared to accept that Dream Ahead ran below form in the Dewhurst? Similarly, you’re quick to defend Tom Queally’s opinion yet you saw fit to bring William Buick’s in to question when he described Dream Ahead as "unbelievable"?
Can you not just say ‘I’ve lumped on Frankel and will therefore only acknowledge the opinions of the like-minded’ and be done with it?
Theme park rides are less dizzying than your ‘logic’.
Can’t you give it a rest or do I have to shoot you down in flames everyday for the rest of my life?
Glor Na Mara ran Pathfork to 1 1/2 lengths and if you had taken the time to look you would know both horses were flat to the boards…….Within 3 weeks they met again in but this time the ground was dead against Glor Na Mara who didn’t act on it. He came there to mount a challenge but because of the very lose ground and his jockey gave up on a lost cause and let him come home in his own time.
Watch the race and you’ll go along way to see a race more divots been thrown in the air from horses hoofs.
Beaten 11 lengths Bolger he still believed Glor Na Mara was a very good horse and much better than that and would go for the Dewhurst.
Beaten only 5 lengths I’d say the comment was fair and yor comments about making the man out to be a liar are nothing more than a childish attempt at making me look like some sort of idiot.
As far as Dream Ahead is concerned if you read more posts instead of sitting wondering how to bring me down you would know I distinctly said I thought Dream ahead was better tan his run in the Dewhurts he’s just not cracked up to be what some people thought he was.
As far as William Buick is concerned I doubt if many punters knew who he was 2 years ago or even 12 months ago although he did ride a Group one winner in the USA for Mick Chaanon
His experience of riding top class horses is fairly new to him having all come this season bar the aformentioned.
Taking into account that Da Re Me, Debussy and the one he rode in the leger are middle distance horses his only experience of riding a top 2yo is Dream Ahead.
Let’s get this straight…As fast as he has shot up the ranks I would think it’s fair to say he does not have the experience to judge top 3yo’s as say Frankie has which is what I said before. That is hardly something anyone would argue with unless they were just oyt to have ago at someone like you are
Anyway I would have to put Tom Queally down as the better judge between the two as he’s been at the top a lot longer. He’s ridden better horses than William Buick like Twice Over and probably the best older horse in training roday Midday plus has won races like the July Cup and Golden Jubilee.
Furthermore it would seem Tom Queally was right about Frankel but the evidence would seem to point to WB getting slightly carried away about just how good Dream Ahead was.
You can make all the excuses you want about Dream Ahead but he burst ecause he tried to take on a much superior animal but as I said before that played a huge part in where he finished. That does not mean where he finsihed refects on how good he actually is.
Bluddy good horse and as someone said before the race on TR he looks more of a sprinter type than a 2000 Guineas horse which may or not may proove to be another reason he ran so poorly.
By all means have a go at me all you want but do yourself a favour and do some studying and bring some facts before you come with both guns blazing.
Take care
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I wouldn’t rule out Dunboyne Express. He’s done very well to date and certainly hasn’t been seen to his full potential yet. He beat Roderic O’Connor 5 lengths on his debut and then improved on his next start to win an easy 8 lengths hammering bench markers like Glor Na Mara and Samuel Morse.
Horses do great things at 2 so often, Xaar, New Approach, Rainbow View, St Nicholas Abbey etc and don’t come back and win a Guineas. If Frankel turns up and wins then I won’t begrudge it, would be good to see if he can go on from what he has done at 2 but there is a fair chance he won’t also, and taking the odds for next years race right now is insanity.
I’ve got no probelms with Dunboyne Express and think he could wll turn out to be a Guineas horse but not for the reasons you are puting forward.
Roderic O’Connor was totally unfancied and probably well in need of the race that day. Master of The Hounds wasn’t and the way he cut him down was very impressive if not breathtaking.
Fuuny thing is he took a bit of time to get going and ran on really well that day, both he and Master of the hounds puting alot of distance between themselves and Roderic O’Connor, but for some reason they dropped him back to 6f.
As it turned out the ground wasn’t great and stamina and class seen him through but I wouldn’t be using the distance he beat the others as a benchmark. Glor Na Mara was 2/1 that day and finished stone last emphasising again he can’t act on lose ground.
That said he looks the part which for me is more important than what he beat in that race.
Would that be the History that had me touting Workforce for the Derby, Workforce for the Arc, Zenyatta for the Breeders, Zarkava for the Arc, Canford Cliffs as a super horse and now Frankel.
You have to get over the fact I was right about Frankel totally correct on Dream Ahead and you got it wrong again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It’s not a tipping cometion you know it’s only opinions.Get over it.
Like i said history shows that i am the driver of the
Workforce
bus,you jumped on en -route to Epsom! You lack the Foresight of spotting a Champion way before he"s actually achieved anything,if you are happy just jumping on bandwagons at least pay the driver! Like i have already said about the Frankel story,its the end of part one,lets see what excitements in store for part 2 next year! One of us is going to be wrong big time and i am favourite there but TAPK loves it when his backs to the wall!
Soldier on!PATHFORK,STRONG SUIT or NATIVE KHAN i think one of these horses will win guineas next year. though not 100 percent sure which one it be.
The Dewhurst may have been marketed as ‘the race of the century’, but the National Stakes form is arguably the most solid piece of 2YO form this season.
Pathfork, unbeaten winner of the Futurity and National Stakes, beat subsequent 4L Beresford Stakes winner and Racing Post Trophy supremo, Casamento, and previous Phoenix Stakes hero, Zoffany.
Pathfork has travelled with any amount of ease in his races, quickens well and maintains that effort right to the line. The fact that he was made to fight at on his last outing can only be considered a plus when it comes to the hustle and bustle of the Guineas – this lad won’t be hiding.
Even though he was made to work for his last two successes, Pathfork always gave me the impression that he won with a little bit up his sleeve.
He is a fine looking, athletic colt and looks the type to improve physically over the Winter. It’s no harm, either, that he’s developing the profile of a Guineas contender.
Frankel could very well have a proper colt to challenge him at Newmarket.
I understand that Pathfork is destined to race in the US. His owner wanted him to race in the BC but a slight setback prevented it so he will be aimed at the Kentucky Derby, probably move there for his preparation.
I understand that Pathfork is destined to race in the US. His owner wanted him to race in the BC but a slight setback prevented it so he will be aimed at the Kentucky Derby, probably move there for his preparation.
Where did you hear this please Andy? Gutted if so. I know he was aimed for the breeders cup juvenile.
Sorry but I am not in a position to reveal my reliable sources, all I can say is it was reported at the Keenland sales.
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