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The whip does not physically "hurt"
if
used correctly. Correctly being the issue. It can hurt if used incorrectly, including hitting in the same place an infinite amount of times. There is also little known about the psycological aspect. Horses react differently. Some horses who’ve been whipped a lot come back the next time and run equally as well, with no ill effects. Some never come back to their best.
Do you remember the 2008 Champion Hurdle? A tough, very genuine and consistent little horse called Katchit won. Trainer and jockey were up in arms about Thornton getting a whip ban. Saying it did not hurt the horse etc. Yet that tough, genuine and consistent racehorse was never the same. Why? May be it was an injury? He did get a leg injury last year, some two years later. But at the time one of his owners was a member here and kept us well informed of Katchit’s exploits. From what I remember he said nothing about any physical problem. Katchit was a young horse, so age should not have been a problem. Had shown before and in the race itself a magnificent temperament. Katchit was never the same after that Champion Hurdle. To me, even from that first run against Snap Tie, looked as if he’d fallen out of love with the game. May be it was a coincidence, may be the injury last year took time to appear, may be it was psycological damage.
Hi Ginger – ironic that after not visiting this site for some time I should see a reference to me in your comment above.
I would like to offer my perspective on your Katchit example above.
I agree with you that Katchit has never been quite the same horse as he was in the 2008 Champion Hurdle however I don’t think it has anything to do with the use of the whip in that race.
In his return at Kempton later in 2008 – the Snap Tie race – he was coming out for a seasonal debut and ran pretty close behind a stripped fit Snap Tie who scampered around that flat track breaking the course record in beating Katchit by a length and a half. His problems really came after lugging a load of weight around Wincanton in pretty deep ground just a few weeks later.
As for psychological damage, well I don’t know about that… he still loves his racing and is working incredibly well at home again – he fractured a pastern in the World Hurdle in 2010 and then when returning from that injury got a leg after his second to Australia Day at Kempton (who incidentally broke the course record again!!). I think we’d like to think that he knows what he achieved when he was young and is kinda enjoying doing what he wants.
His run at Ascot last week was a measure of where we are with him – he’s still loving it and Choc thinks he has as must zest for it as ever… just not as much pace, ridden with care this season we’ll see him staying through beaten horses and hopefully picking up a prize along the way.
You don’t believe in mincing your words do you Fist?
Fwiw, I believe Katchit has been outpaced in most of his races for the past 2 seasons and, apart from beating trees at Aintree and Wincanton, his only win came in soft ground at the end of a truly run Champion Hurdle, where he outbattled another horse who probably also needs further.
He can only benefit from a step up in trip imo, though I doubt that would stretch to the demands of a World Hurdle, given both his conformation and his flat form, Aintree’s 2m 4f might be right up his street.I feel like I’ve been told off fists!!!
I agree with Reet on this – we’ve been done on every track other than Cheltenham, mostly for pace… yet in his juvenile season Katchit had pace to burn.
We don’t honestly know if he’ll get 3 miles (but Alan is convinced he’ll get it easily) but then how would we given he’s never run it… Aintree will be his first step up in trip and should give us a hint but against Al Eile in his race could be a real ask!
We are really excited – he’s not lost his zest, just a bit of toe… and he was only 5 lengths off Punjabi on Tuesday so nothing to be ashamed of. I thought he came up the hill better than anything else (but was flat out from the off), if his CH credentials stand up to stayers races then we’re gonna have a heap more fun.
If (and it’s a big if) he goes on to win the World Hurdle next year.. I’ll look forward to Fists eating a little humble pie!
A special mention to Katchit, who ran his heart out and defended his title with credit.
Thanks Bos… he was briliiant today given the season he’s had…
cracking race.. .delighted for all concerned.. (and a bit please the 5 year old stat stands… gives Katchit’s run last year a bit more weight)I think that’ll be the last time Katchit runs over 2 miles… we’ll go Aintree from here and take on Al Eile and then come back for the World hurdle next year… hsa there been a horse to do the Triumph, Champion and World?
We’re delighted with the boy, but Alan thinks time to go longer! He certainly tried though didn’t he!The break has reignited him, and the blinkers were only considered briefly. I was at Newbury with Alan last week and he was really unsure what to do.
On Wednesday Katchit worked in blinkers and basically told Alan he wasn’t going to run if he was expected to wear a silly hat…
This morning Alan we got the call we were hoping for from the yard… and now we’re all very excited…The thing about the CH for me is that it doesn’t really matter if it’s a great year or a moderate one (and by who’s judgement)… these are the very best, the margins of victory and defeat although may be lengths at times, are absolutely tiny… the winner will be the champion, and he/she will be deserving!
Good luck, whoever you back…
Its probably because the owners/trainers don`t think they had much chjance. For me Quinola des Obeaux looks the winner.
Or they feel that horse will benefit long term by missing what could be an ordeal for them.
As I said then why bother with the entry? The race has not suddenly become more difficult since the initial entry stage. Moore has continually talked his horse up and the first indication any ‘outsider’ had of the horse not running was at the last declaration. To put it kindly his handling of things has left a lot to be desired.
Our decision not to run Lidar was simply because bumpers are about introducing horses to racing – they don’t need a championship race on a
tough course. Why potentially ruin a horse with long term potential for the
sake of a single race? The entry was an option and Alan has made a
And he couldnt win anyway !
really good call.
You’re a piece of work… get a life
Getting near to the moment of truth and I fear I’d jinx something for us if I didn’t come on here championing the little fella
Tough season, some patchy work at home… I think he just achieved too much too soon and can’t quite cope with having nothing left to aim for
He’ll be right there two from home and we’ll see if he still loves the hill
C’mon Katchit!!!!
Not wishing to rain on your parade but Katchit won a very poor champion last year ,and hasnt performed this year , sorry he aint got a hope in HELL ! my friend
Which bit of "not wishing to rain on your parade" did you actually mean?
He had no chance in the Triumph, he had no chance last year… excuse me for not bursting into tears at your provision of startling insight!
Its probably because the owners/trainers don`t think they had much chjance. For me Quinola des Obeaux looks the winner.
Or they feel that horse will benefit long term by missing what could be an ordeal for them.
As I said then why bother with the entry? The race has not suddenly become more difficult since the initial entry stage. Moore has continually talked his horse up and the first indication any ‘outsider’ had of the horse not running was at the last declaration. To put it kindly his handling of things has left a lot to be desired.
Our decision not to run Lidar was simply because bumpers are about introducing horses to racing – they don’t need a championship race on a tough course. Why potentially ruin a horse with long term potential for the sake of a single race? The entry was an option and Alan has made a really good call.
Getting near to the moment of truth and I fear I’d jinx something for us if I didn’t come on here championing the little fella
Tough season, some patchy work at home… I think he just achieved too much too soon and can’t quite cope with having nothing left to aim for
He’ll be right there two from home and we’ll see if he still loves the hill
C’mon Katchit!!!!
I’ve got Black Jacari at 16/1 also after his first run over hurdles at Rasen.
Fancy a pint??
I’m sure you don’t need to be told this but BJ won’t even be going to the festival… he’s off for a holiday…
fwiw – we bet big on him long before Market Rasen off the back of yard confidence and have had months of training fees to go with it… got a spare couple of quid to buy me a pint?
People can expect too much at times for trainers you simply can’t come up with a horse like Katchit year after year.
It could be years before Alan King comes up with another Katchit and no one will no that better than him.
I think you misunderstood me Fist, as owners we are not expecting Alan to work miracles but you hope that the horses you buy are genuine and will give their all… when BJ was progressing on the flat earlier in the summer there was plenty to be hopeful about and when we realised that he’d have no issue with softer ground or with jumping then we got quite excited… noone expected him to go on and win a CH but simply to have a progressive horse that would get into the mix for the Triumph… as it is we have some slightly different challenges to overcome – mostly the fact that he has seconditis!
I watched the race and backed BJ. No complaints really. The winner was only about a pound below BJ on the flat and appeared to simply out stay him. I think BJ will win one day over obstacles, I just think he was overrated because everyone was thinking this is King’s Triumph Hurdle horse because he started off on a similar path to Katchit and in the same silks. He went off a ridiculous price at Bangor for precisely those reasons and he will I am sure find a soft race before the season is out.
His handicap mark is probably totally screwed now so it wouldn’t be a total surprise to see him novice chasing in a year’s time to get the 4 year old allowance.
i think as has been stated in this thread already, it’s a mental problem with BJ.
We were desperately hoping for another Katchit (and I think Alan & the Highflyer guys all thought we might have one) but whilst he is probably talented enough he has some real difficulty translating promise at home to the track. Over recent weeks he has improved his work at home but still seemed to get outdone over the last.
Alan’s big frustration is that the horse isn’t giving everything… that said we don’t think we’ll be giving up just yet – there’s plenty of potential left in himI think Mount Helicon is a bigger disappointment – Alan’s most expensive purchase and hasn’t taken to it at all
To quote Alan three weeks ago – "if I have a decent juvenile this year it’s him…" as Walkon ran past us on the gallops
I wouldn’t take any of Katchit’s runs this year as representative of his true running. His defeats as a four-year old were better runs, and you could put them down to age/being prepared for Chelters. Alan King says he can get him better, but he seems to be lacking his enthusiasm, which has always been such a feature of his running. Perhaps his Champion effort has taken something out of him? I think it is this lack of edge, rather than ability, that looks to compromise his Champion chances. I’m a big fan. It would be a shame to see him defend his crown without his zest.
Are you sure you weren’t in the ring with us after the race? That is pretty much the conversation we had with Choc and Alan.
For whatever reason he isn’t firing – we think he could be a little bored but there is the chance that he’s left a little of himself at Cheltenham last march given it was about as hard as race as it gets
Rest now for him until it’s time to get him ready for March and we think he’ll go fresh now. Alan says he can get him better but on today’s evidence we;re running for a place (which is what we thought we were doing last year)… Binocular looks a very fine animal!
I think my Tricast would have been Katchy to beat Cracky to beat Chomby. Celesty the dark horse.
Am i the only one who finds Binocular being called "Binny" a bit stomach churning?
You know, even as I was typing it I was thinking the same thing – it’s clearly a little contagious!
not all lost yet – we certainly hope it can be rescheduled for next weekend.
i think there are a number of horses for whom the christmas hurdle isn’t ideal – if they can’t reschedule it could put preparations for March and the rest of the season into chaos
fingers crossed (although I’d expect ascot to suit Binny more than us)
Last year there was a £200k bonus put up by Boylesports. I’m assuming the same will apply this year.
This is a huge race and one that we aren’t underestimating, but the fact remains for me that there’s huge amounts to prove for these other horses.
Katchit,
Wouldn’t it also be reasonable to suggest that your charge also has questions to answer given how laboured he has looked thus far in 2008/9, Champion Hurdler or not?
Depends on how you see it. He isn’t glamourous is he?
The race against Snap Tie was OK, beaten by a horse that was ready for it and Katchit wasn’t…
Wincanton… beaten by Chomba Womba who then went and beat the 2nd favourite for the CH (i don’t remember CAJ giving her 18 or 19 lbs that day)We’ve learned this year that he probably wants a little further than 2 miles at some courses…
What he doesn’t have to prove is that he’s good enough to compete off levels at the top of the sport, or that he’s good enough to win a Champion Hurdle… the only other horse in the race that can say even half that sentence is Harchibald (and I’d probably grant him the whole thing)
We’ll let the boy show us on Saturday whether he’s still up for it, the yard are upbeat, Choc is full of confidence – why would we doubt?
